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DCS: F-5E!


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Please go here and funny.....http://www.usaf-sig.org/index.php/references/downloads/category/52-f-5-tiger-ii-northrop

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This is where ROEs are placed to even things out. The F-5E/MiG-21 would be using GCI to get into place and take advantage of their small size and overcome the lack of BVR capability. The Eagles might be restricted to VIS ID.

 

Your imagination is going to come into play here. Server rules/eras will need to be better matched to prevent a late Su-27/33 with a full load of R-27ERs going against a F-5E with AIM-9Ps. Not unheard of, but you wont get much traffic.

 

-Jeff

 

Youre right. Server rules and mission design. As of now most of the server has all if not most airframes in the mission. Which is totally fine for me and great as you see all these great variance in DCS comming together and matching each other. However, when it comes to weapon load and not sitting in an F15 or Su27 you are very often dead.

On one hand thats realistic as those fighters are simply at the top of food chain. But gameplay and fun lacks in that case. And yes, if youre not offering these jets you are having a hard time findind people joining your server. Balancing is always the toughest part.

None the less Im really looking forward to the F-5E. Its iconic and a awesome addition. And if you get a kill with it its even more satisfiying.

If I would like to fly SFM I could get it for free at World of Warplanes.

 

You only need 2 of the following 3: Altitude - Speed - Skill

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That manual is for the old pre 1980's version of the F-5E. Speed won't matter so much in DCS unless running away from a fight. I love the MiG-21 but it is a rocket with wings and not really built for a dogfight. I get the impression that the F-5E is more like a Sabre on steroids. Easy enough to fly and fight in. The MiG-21 on the other hand has a nasty stall and I've seen my fair share of manouver kills during dogfights. You feel like you have control over the fight and suddenly you push her too far... The F-5E has good, well rounded performance. Remember, even the F-15 and F-14 drivers thinks that the F-5E is a handfull WVR during aggressor trainings.

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The Major "problem" with the F-5E in DCS when it comes to Air-Air MP with the F-5E (on "normal" air quake servers) is the fact that the F-5E does not have the ability to IFF targets using its radar

(Correct me if im wrong but thats what ive read/heard)

 

So you need to Visually ID targets (or have someone do it for you)

which while not usually a problem IRL due to ground radar and knowing what aircraft types the enemy has

its a problem in many DCS MP servers

as they often have a mix of both aircraft types on both sides.

 

And to ID aircraft based on Markings / Paintschemes is something that is very hard/unreliable when it comes to DCS.

 

So on Servers with the Teams having different aircraft types this wont be a significant problem but for Mixed servers it will make it almost unusable in air-air combat (except for in self defense) since there will be alot of Team killing with kill eager pilots shooting at anything they can get a missile lock on...


Edited by mattebubben
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Mattebubben, it's rather fun to see how you write about the F-5E's advantages over the Mig-21 every few pages :P Seems like a lot of people don't understand the importance of a modern RWR for SA. The only way I can see that the MiG-21bis evenly matched is with awacs support and all-aspect R-60M (hopefully fixed soon).

 

A lot of people forget this. Information is half the battle. The RWR on the Gazelle is better than the one in the MiG-21, and has already saved my life several times by allowing me to evade Su-27s and the like. In a helicopter, let alone a mach 1.6 fighter.

 

No, it won't be as good as a Su-27 or F-15, but it is not supposed to be. It's place will be fighting MiG-21s. But it will do better versus more modern fighters than the MiG-21 does.

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The Major "problem" with the F-5E when it comes to Air-Air MP with the F-5E (on "normal" air quake servers) is the fact that the F-5E does not have the ability to IFF targets using its radar

(Correct me if im wrong but thats what ive read/heard)

 

So you need to Visually ID targets

which while not usually a problem IRL due to ground radar and knowing what aircraft types the enemy has is a problem in many DCS MP servers

as they often have a mix of both aircraft types on both sides.

 

And ID based on Markings / Paintschemes is something that is very hard (unreliable) when it comes to DCS.

 

So on Servers with the Teams having different aircraft types this wont be a significant problem but for Mixed servers it will make it almost unusable in air-air combat (except for in self defense) since there will be alot of Team killing with kill eager pilots shooting at anything they can get a missile lock on...

 

Knowing this, the mission creators need to prevent that. For me, simply not mixing the planes.

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Mattebubben, it's rather fun to see how you write about the F-5E's advantages over the Mig-21 every few pages :P Seems like a lot of people don't understand the importance of a modern RWR for SA. The only way I can see that the MiG-21bis evenly matched is with awacs support and all-aspect R-60M (hopefully fixed soon).

 

Well one has to repeat it since ppl dont learn ^^ (And there are alot of new ppl who have not gone through the earlier pages which can be understandable even if it forces others to repeat themselves =P )

 

And whats why the A-10s have so many Air-Air kills in dcs...

 

I hate flying cap over friendly Strikers as they always shoot me down after i save them...

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F-5E vs MiG-21Bis is going to be an extremely competitive matchup. The Mig is superior until the merge, the Tiger after that point. They're both very bare bones aircraft, and I predict extremely close fought dogfights to be the norm when the two meet.

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With the EL/M-2032's claimed 100km range, I'm not sure if the MiG-21bis will be THAT superior before the merge. Especially when you use the bad weather templates in the mission editor and the Caucasus map. The MiG-21 is really blind as a bat at longer ranges and in bad weather.

 

It will be really interesting to see how the F-5 tactics will develop when the module arrives :thumbup:

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With the EL/M-2032's claimed 100km range, I'm not sure if the MiG-21bis will be THAT superior before the merge. Especially when you use the bad weather templates in the mission editor and the Caucasus map. The MiG-21 is really blind as a bat at longer ranges and in bad weather.

 

It will be really interesting to see how the F-5 tactics will develop when the module arrives :thumbup:

 

The EL/M-2032 is only in some Late Upgraded F-5s

(And its able to use Active radar missiles etc)

And its very much not the radar or F-5 Variant we are getting.

 

We are getting a F-5E with a Standard Radar.

 

So it has the APQ-159.

With about 37km stated range.

 

It still has the advantage over the Mig-21 that its not fixed though so you will be able to find enemies easier.


Edited by mattebubben
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so on MP deathmatch, what can we do with that 4 bomb rack? : /

 

Just 4 bombs?

 

yes on the wings just 4 but on the belly that 1 hardpoint can rack up up to 5 bombs.

 

so F5 drivers would be capable of arming up to 9 bombs. :)

 

 

still ultimately superior ATG ordiance loading to the Mig21, and comparable to the Mirage 2000.


Edited by Kev2go

 

 

 

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Honestly if the F-5E take longer by my side is not a problem. The quality of BST products are appreciated.

 

The price, fair or not, have nothing to do with the idea I wrote before. Actually I think the price is really fair. Anyway I don't want comment more about because some people misunderstand my point.

 

Sorry, i was in kind of a blunt mood. anyways, back on topic :)

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With the EL/M-2032's claimed 100km range, I'm not sure if the MiG-21bis will be THAT superior before the merge. Especially when you use the bad weather templates in the mission editor and the Caucasus map. The MiG-21 is really blind as a bat at longer ranges and in bad weather.

 

It will be really interesting to see how the F-5 tactics will develop when the module arrives :thumbup:

 

In addition to what Matt said about the Radar, while the F-5 has a better radar, the MiG has weapons guided by it. They're not great by any stretch of the imagination, but they're better than nothing, which is what the F-5 has to work with.

 

Now before Matt jumps on me for this, I will concede the point that this advantage gets even slimmer should BST be making the Aim-9P5 (Was it the 5 Matt?) which has an all aspect seeker like the L, though BST has given no indications they intend to do this.

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The EL/M-2032 is only in some Late Upgraded F-5s

(And its able to use Active radar missiles etc)

And its very much not the radar or F-5 Variant we are getting.

 

We are getting a F-5E with a Standard Radar.

 

So it has the APQ-159.

With about 37km stated range.

 

It still has the advantage over the Mig-21 that its not fixed though so you will be able to find enemies easier.

 

What is the EL/M-2032 range?

Mission: "To intercept and destroy aircraft and airborne missiles in all weather conditions in order to establish and maintain air superiority in a designated area. To deliver air-to-ground ordnance on time in any weather condition. And to provide tactical reconaissance imagery" - F-14 Tomcat Roll Call

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In addition to what Matt said about the Radar, while the F-5 has a better radar, the MiG has weapons guided by it. They're not great by any stretch of the imagination, but they're better than nothing, which is what the F-5 has to work with.

 

Now before Matt jumps on me for this, I will concede the point that this advantage gets even slimmer should BST be making the Aim-9P5 (Was it the 5 Matt?) which has an all aspect seeker like the L, though BST has given no indications they intend to do this.

 

 

Aim-9P4 or Aim-9P5.

 

The P4 is the first Aim-9P all aspect variant and had a seeker that was a simplified variant of the Aim-9L (To reduce cost/Maintenance demands)

 

And the Aim-9P5 was a follow up variant that had the ability of the Aim-9M to more effectively differentiate between targets and countermeasures.

 

They have not stated anything about it but i would be really surprised (and annoyed) if they did not add atleast one of those two.

 

As the majority of F-5E users (that had good relations with the US) acquired these missiles in the 80s-90s to increase the effectiveness of the F-5E in the air-air Role.

 

So most of the major users like Switzerland,Saudi Arabia,South Korea,Chile,Taiwan,Thailand etc all used either the Aim-9P4 or the Aim-9P5

 

(And many if not most of other large scale users)

 

And they entered service in the Early/Mid 80

 

(Aim-9P4 early 80s with Aim-9P5 mid-Late 80s though both remained in production for a long time and did not replace each other)

 

And i dont think there is any reason not to give the F-5E the Aim-9P4 or P5 since it will only level the playing field and you still only have 2 missiles

 

Where as even the Mig-21 will have up to 6 missiles.

 

What is the EL/M-2032 range?

 

Well the Stated Range for the EL/M2032 is 100 km against a Fighter sized target (5m2 size plane)

and 150 km against large targets.

 

But the EL/M2032 is a radar that is not standard to the F-5E (though some Late Upgraded ones are equipped with it)

Its one of those radars that older fighters are commonly upgraded with (F-4 Terminator 2000,Kfir C.10,Mig-21 Lancer etc)

As well as some new built fighters like the TA/FA-50.

 

But as already stated the Standard F-5E we are getting does not have this Radar

As only Some Upgrade F-5E variants have this radar (Chile And Thailand being two users with F-5Es upgraded with the EL/M2032 radar)


Edited by mattebubben
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Funny thing about, EL/M2032 :

 

As stated, it does not belong in the baseline F-5E we are getting, rather it is on some of the upgraded F-5 types. Aaaandd... also upgraded MiG-21 LanceR as operated by Romania :).

 

So it is interestingly used on both F-5 and MiG-21 upgrades :).

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Looks like there is a delay and it won't come this month: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2781413&postcount=26

It's now supposed to come in "summer" as a beta and not this month as has been said in one of the recent newsletters (http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2737668&postcount=23). :(

Well, business as usual I guess^^


Edited by QuiGon

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Looks like there is a delay and it won't come this month: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2781413&postcount=26

It's now supposed to come in "summer" as a beta and not this month as has been said in one of the recent newsletters (http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2737668&postcount=23). :(

Well, business as usual I guess^^

 

That manual must be a monster to translate....

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Leatherneck is waiting for new "engine binaries" to debug the Mig-21... and the AJS-37 is in the "crunch month". My guess is that ED will release DCS 2.5 this summer and holding off the F-5E until we have a stable and unified platform. If that is the case, I don't mind waiting a bit longer for the F-5E :thumbup:

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I hope there is more info on this in tomorrows newsletter.

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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F-5E Tigers have been readied by your maintenance crews! Waiting for a go from general command 'ED'.

 

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tiger can find something at 100nm, but still need to creep into 5nm to launch its missile.

hope the target won't find the hunter is running after him.

its RWR had been removed by mechanic in order to exchange vodka, plz keep secret.

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