typhoon vs f-35, who is win?

[leafer]

F-22 almost weighs twice as much as the Typhoon. I'd say if anyone was "sweaty" it was the Typhoon squadrons; slicked off down to the bone, and still only enough to trade blows with the much heavier F-22.

 

Yes, "sweaty Typoon" just like i said.

 

But did they strip off the paint, put in smaller wheels and use tiny pilot as well?

[Ulanthorn]

Btw, the IRIS-T should be the equal of the AIM-9X as far as I can tell.

Actually NO. The IRIS-T is a much bigger and much faster Missile with a much longer range. It's more like the R-27ET in DCS as we know it.

[Hummingbird]

Actually NO. The IRIS-T is a much bigger and much faster Missile with a much longer range. It's more like the R-27ET in DCS as we know it.

 

Are you sure? AFAIK it is the most agile missile out there atm, but in terms of range it should be comparable to tje AIM-9X. But I'm not sure.

[wilky510]

Yes, "sweaty Typoon" just like i said.

 

But did they strip off the paint, put in smaller wheels and use tiny pilot as well?

Haha, maybe they did. :lol:

 

on a much serious note. Not sure why people even compare to the two. I mean honestly would they ever face eachother in a situation before either are out of service? I just can't see it.

 

Typhoon is just a great aircraft. I just hate hearing that the F-22 is only good at BVR when it can hold it's own in WVR too. It has a decent wing loading, it has the excess thrust, and has a very clean configuration. Though, it is lacking an HOBs/AIM-9x. But hopefully that will be fixed soon.

[wilky510]

Actually NO. The IRIS-T is a much bigger and much faster Missile with a much longer range. It's more like the R-27ET in DCS as we know it.

Only thing i see in the IRIS-T vs AIM-9X is weight, which is 89kg vs 85kg. They're pretty much the same missile...

[Exorcet]

on a much serious note. Not sure why people even compare to the two. I mean honestly would they ever face eachother in a situation before either are out of service? I just can't see it.

It's like a boxing match I guess, entertaining. As far as reality goes, perhaps a F-14/Iran situation? Both planes are being exported.

 

On the 9X vs IRIS-T, I had heard that the IRIS is slightly better overall, though I have no idea myself. It doesn't matter much though. I didn't bring up the 9X to say that it gives the F-35 a definite edge, but to point out that WVR missiles now have very large kill envelopes. The EF enjoys this as well. It's likely that the one that is spotted first in WVR dies. Applies to both planes.

 

This is the difference between the modern dogfight and WWII, or even Vietnam era. In the past weapon envelopes were small. They are much larger now, possibly encompassing all of WVR.

[Tirak]

Yeah, AIM-9X doesn't flip the equation, the Typhoon is a better guns dogfighter, and an F-35 getting a good guns kill would be a hell of a feat, but the AIM-9X helps level the playingfield. A guns kill forces an F-35 to be positioned nearly perfectly, which in a sustained fight gets hard and harder for him, but with the AIM-9X, close becomes good enough. IRIS-T is the same for the Typhoon, but because the Typhoon is a better dogfighter, the advantage is not as important to it.

[StrongHarm]

http://www.aviatia.net/versus/eurofighter-vs-f35/ gives a 50-50 probability in that fight. I believe the superior sensors, 100% situational awareness via the exterior cameras and see through airframe, not to mention still classified aspects of the F35 would tip the balance. Also, as I stated before the 4200 rpm GAU on the F35 would trump the 1700 rpm of the BK-27. Yes, more led in the air makes a difference in the sky just like it does on the ground.

[Hummingbird]

You need a better argument than to keep on posting the same link Strongharm, esp. as said link is worthless as it provides ZERO references for its figures. You might as well be qouting figures from a video game.

[Emu]

By comparison the EF can carry 6x 2,000 lbs bombs + 4x AMRAAMs + 2x IRIS-Ts + 1× 2,000 liter CFT

No it can't. It can carry 6 1,000lb bombs. 2,000lb bombs are not qualified (except in Spanish AF??) and would only work on two pylons, the same ones that are used by the drop tanks. The ones outside aren't strong enough and the ones inside would conflict with the landing gear assuming GBU-10s.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Emu

[Hummingbird]

No it can't. It can carry 6 1,000lb bombs. 2,000lb bombs are not qualified (except in Spanish AF??) and would only work on two pylons, the same ones that are used by the drop tanks. The ones outside aren't strong enough and the ones inside would conflict with the landing gear assuming GBU-10s.

 

Checked and you're partially right, it could carry 6x 2,000 lb JDAMs, but the 2,000 lb GBU bombs are larger (longer & wider b/c of fins & nose cone) and thus it can "only" actually carry 4x 2,000 lb GBU-10 bombs + 6x AAM's or 6x 1000 lb GBU-16 bombs + 6 AAM's.

 

Only the GBU-24B is limited to two bombs AFAIK, and that because of its extra large fins.

 

The bombs on the picture of the EF I posted are 1,000 lb GBU-16 bombs (which are shorter bust as wide as the GBU-10), and the ones on the F-35 are 500 lb GBU-12 bombs.

 

The F-35 can carry the same max of 4x 2,000 lb GBU-10 bombs, however it also has the ability to instead carry six of the smaller 2,000 lb JDAM bombs + 4x AAMs.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Hummingbird

[StrongHarm]

You need a better argument than to keep on posting the same link Strongharm, esp. as said link is worthless as it provides ZERO references for its figures. You might as well be qouting figures from a video game.

 

It's called 'reference'. Point of fact: it lines the figures up nicely and the site elicits more repute than disparate estimates by flight sim enthusiasts. What do you want.. an official statement from the USAF? I typically trust empirical data over opinion. Based on 'available data' they say the fight is a 50/50. I say the superior technology (read: 'unavailable data') would tip that balance no less than 60/40 in favor of the F-35. This is opinion reinforced by reference.

[Tirak]

It's called 'reference'. Point of fact: it lines the figures up nicely and the site elicits more repute than disparate estimates by flight sim enthusiasts. What do you want.. an official statement from the USAF? I typically trust empirical data over opinion. Based on 'available data' they say the fight is a 50/50. I say the superior technology (read: 'unavailable data') would tip that balance no less than 60/40 in favor of the F-35. This is opinion reinforced by reference.

 

No where does it give any reference for why the aircraft score like they do. What is an 8.1/10 in armament? Why did they come to that conclusion.

 

Both have a 90% in BVR, what does that mean? Certainly it can't mean against each other as the stealth capability of the F-35 renders the Eurofighter almost impotent in that style of battle.

 

The F-35 gets a 7.4 in maneuverability as opposed to the Eurofighter's 9.7, and the Eurofighter climbs at nearly 100m/s faster than the F-35, but I'm to believe that an increased rate of fire makes up for that in a gunfight?

 

The website doesn't offer anything other than to put numbers side by side, it's not a valid comparison of capability in combat because it doesn't reflect capabilities brought by the airframe in question. If I want to compare the BK-27 vs the GAU-22/A, well then I can start making arguments that a higher rate of fire brings with it an advantage under certain circumstances, but I can't claim that it makes an F-35 a better dogfighter.

[Emu]

Checked and you're partially right, it could carry 6x 2,000 lb JDAMs, but the 2,000 lb GBU bombs are larger (longer & wider b/c of fins & nose cone) and thus it can "only" actually carry 4x 2,000 lb GBU-10 bombs + 6x AAM's or 6x 1000 lb GBU-16 bombs + 6 AAM's.

 

Only the GBU-24B is limited to two bombs AFAIK, and that because of its extra large fins.

 

The bombs on the picture of the EF I posted are 1,000 lb GBU-16 bombs (which are shorter bust as wide as the GBU-10), and the ones on the F-35 are 500 lb GBU-12 bombs.

 

The F-35 can carry the same max of 4x 2,000 lb GBU-10 bombs, however it also has the ability to instead carry six of the smaller 2,000 lb JDAM bombs + 4x AAMs.

Two GBU-10s maximum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon#Armament

 

Four GBU-31s might be possible if they fit on the inner pylons without interfering with the landing gear but not qualified yet.

[StrongHarm]

So, you question the reliability of data from an aviation site, but Wikipedia is ok? Hmm.. I'll tell ya what's suspect here...

 

:)

[Eddie]

Yeah, both "sources".

 

And in my experience "aviation" sites are often the most questionable of all.

[Emu]

So, you question the reliability of data from an aviation site, but Wikipedia is ok? Hmm.. I'll tell ya what's suspect here...

 

:)

Well I'm not sure where you get your data from but I have never seen an EF carrying GBU-10s on the 3rd wing pylons and only seen Spanish EFs carrying GBU-10s on the wet wing pylons instead of drop tanks. So whilst wiki is a horrible source, it seems to be correct. I'm happy to be proved wrong though.

[StrongHarm]

..in my experience "aviation" sites are often the most questionable of all.

 

Well you're young yet, son.

[NineLine]

Well you're young yet, son.

 

Might ask Eddie what he does for a living ;)

[Eddie]

So whilst wiki is a horrible source

 

Wiki is only a bad source for those who don't check for reliable references, and confirm those references have been interpreted correctly (so granted, most people).

 

The problem with wikipedia et al in general is that by using only publicly available information (obviously) they are only telling part of the story and more often than not missing significant details that actually change the ending of the story entirely.

 

A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing indeed.

[Hummingbird]

Two GBU-10s maximum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon#Armament

 

Four GBU-31s might be possible if they fit on the inner pylons without interfering with the landing gear but not qualified yet.

 

I was looking at this: http://eurofighter.airpower.at/bew-gbu-lgbs.htm

 

But I see your point regarding the landing gear, and it might very well only be the smaller 2,000 JDAMs that can be carried there.

[StrongHarm]

Well you're young yet, son.

 

Might ask Eddie what he does for a living ;)

 

Therein lies the ironic humor. Though, I shouldn't take advantage by prodding him so. :music_whistling:

[Eddie]

I was looking at this: http://eurofighter.airpower.at/bew-gbu-lgbs.htm

 

But I see your point regarding the landing gear, and it might very well only be the smaller 2,000 JDAMs that can be carried there.

 

Don't speak/read German so can't be sure what that site is saying, but UK jets aren't cleared for 2000lb Paveway (EPWIII). T1 jets can only use EPWII and T2 P1E adds PWIV, can't really comment on the other operator nations though without checking as I don't follow their activities too closely (they're quite far behind us in general with the jet that it's pretty pointless professionally speaking).

 

As for the argument at the crux of this thread, while entirely pointless from the outset, the answer is quite simple. Regardless of BVR or WVR and whatever the initial parameters, in a 1vs1 engagement whoever gets the first shot will almost certainly win.

 

This is especially true WVR. It doesn't matter if you've got an AIM-9X or an ASRAAM heading for you, you're in for a very bad day unless you are very, very lucky indeed.

 

The fact is, that for either jet manoeuvring on to the other guys 6 isn't all that relevant and in a head on engagement assuming it did get to within (or close to) visual range which ever jet got the first weapon off the rail would have the fight. For BVR, it's highly likely the F-35 would win, assuming it knew the Typhoon was there and got the first look/first shot which is certainly has the advantages to achieve.

 

In an old school guns fight, yes the Typhoon has a performance advantage, but it's still anyone's fight really.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Eddie

[Hummingbird]

Don't speak/read German so can't be sure what that site is saying, but UK jets aren't cleared for 2000lb Paveway (EPWIII). T1 jets can only use EPWII and T2 P1E adds PWIV, can't really comment on the other operator nations though without checking as I don't follow their activities too closely (they're quite far behind us in general with the jet that it's pretty pointless professionally speaking).

 

As for the argument at the crux of this thread, while entirely pointless from the outset, the answer is quite simple. Regardless of BVR or WVR and whatever the initial parameters, in a 1vs1 engagement whoever gets the first shot will almost certainly win.

 

This is especially true WVR. It doesn't matter if you've got an AIM-9X or an ASRAAM heading for you, you're in for a very bad day unless you are very, very lucky indeed.

 

The fact is, that for either jet manoeuvring on to the other guys 6 isn't all that relevant and in a head on engagement assuming it did get to within (or close to) visual range which ever jet got the first weapon off the rail would have the fight. For BVR, it's highly likely the F-35 would win, assuming it knew the Typhoon was there and got the first look/first shot which is certainly has the advantages to achieve.

 

So you're basically saying that defensive countermeasures don't work against these missiles? :huh:

 

 

In an old school guns fight, yes the Typhoon has a performance advantage, but it's still anyone's fight really.

 

If you can out turn, out climb and out accelerate your opponent by a noticable margin then given equal pilots the result should be a given in a guns fight, and the EF most certainly has it all over the F-35 in this scenario :)

 

With a 312 kg/sq.m wing loading, delta wing with large LE devices and a high T/W ratio the EF should have it in the bag.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Hummingbird

[NineLine]

So you're basically saying that defensive countermeasures don't work against these missiles? :huh:

 

 

 

 

If you can out turn, out climb and out accelerate your opponent by a noticable margin then given equal pilots the result should be a given in a guns fight, and the EF most certainly has it all over the F-35 in this scenario :)

 

With a 312 kg/sq.m wing loading, delta wing with large LE devices and a high T/W ratio the EF should have it in the bag.

 

Provided you actually know how well the F-35 performs, which you don't. Anyone short of someone involved with the F-35 program is just armchair quarterbacking....