Flagrum Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 As far as I understand it, "going low and slow" results in better SA for the pilot (compared to, i.e. a drone operator who is looking only through a dringing straw with a latency in the range of seconds at the other side of the world) and thus allows a more effective collaboration with the guys on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher54321 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 As far as I understand it, "going low and slow" results in better SA for the pilot (compared to, i.e. a drone operator who is looking only through a dringing straw with a latency in the range of seconds at the other side of the world) and thus allows a more effective collaboration with the guys on the ground. When there was no alternative this was likely true to an extent - in Vietnam you may need to see the WP or rocket smoke marking references - but back then communication was audio and smoke. Communication from the ground today can be via multiple methods - not just voice/smoke. Your eyes are not better than a multispectrum camera that can zoom in on exact coordinates relayed from other assets and will allow you to sit in relative safety with far more time. Even if you had a multi spectrum HMD that tagged the bad guys with labels why would you need to sit down low soaking up damage? In reality damage repair is not a case of flying back to base. An example taken from 1991 when A-10s were withdrawn in favour of F-16s because so many were on the ramp damaged. There is a place for low and slow - where you can get away with it - but better SA - hardly you have far less time to think/react and are in far more unnecessary danger - with probably less idea of what is actually happening on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7rooper Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 If you google "stealth A-10" and "futuristic A-10" you'll find some funny artworks/concepts :D Awesome!! My rig specs: Intel Core i7 4770 @3.4Ghz // Corsair 16GB DDR3 // MoBo Asus Z87K // HDD 1TB 7200RPM // eVGA Nvidia GTX 760GT 2GB DDR5 // LG 3D 47" 1920x1080 // Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS // Saitek Combat Pro Pedals // Thrustmaster MFD Cougar pack // PS3 Eye + FTNOIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Awesome!! :shocking: ... :wacko: ....:puke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanBoy2006.01 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Jumping in a little late and didn't have time to read all the posts. Personally i think that the above posted artwork looks just like 7rooper said: Awesome! With CAS specifically there seems to be many ways to skin the cat. Attack Helicopters, Drones, Fighter Bombers, Dedicated Fixed Wing Jets (Like A10), Prop Driven Fixed Wing and converted Transport Aircraft. Did I leave anything out? Unfortunately it will probably mean that the future will not bring us another A10. Because of budgetary constraints most countries will settle for a jack of all trades king of none job. This is already old news ; but just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike5560 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 The OP is correct - the definition of CAS as defined by the forces has nothing to do with flying low /slow and is not platform dependent. Nothing is going to be flying low & slow over a half decent ground force today - and any observation will done from a safe distance unless things have really gone to pot in which case it's a suicide run! I don't argue there is truth to this, and possibly more so in an insurgency where ADA exists in a non-linear fight. In a conflict with friendly/enemy lines there are established IPs to keep aircraft relatively safe from SA fires. Providing immediate and uninterrupted CAS in this situation may be almost impossible, for any aircraft. Flying low altitude or higher is largely situation dependent. This thread is not about who can or can't do CAS, it's about a replacement for the A-10. Just because an MQ-9 or an A-29 can do CAS, doesn't quite mean they are viable replacements. Assuming you can ID ground troops with your eyes is ridiculous - and only leads to fratricide. I never said anyone should be able to ID troops with their eyes. If they could, why would it lead to fratricide? What makes seeing people so much more prone to fratricide vs vehicles? Ok so a TGP potentially cant see through clouds - but under the clouds you still cant see through tree cover - and good luck working out who's who when the troops are intermingled (or not). True, even a TGP would be hard pressed to see through a dense canopy. If friendlies and enemies are close up, like fixed-bayonets style, then CAS will be of little or no help. An advantage of the A-10C using a TGP is that it can verify targets given from the controllers and has far more time to observe and work suitable attack vectors better than they would down lower. Indeed. Until the deck is 2000ft overcast. Perhaps I should've further clarified my comment and said "Having the flexibility of going low and slow will always have a CAS advantage" A WP mark with a quick correction from the JTAC for the wingman to hit, get in, get out may be the best solution. Caliber size doesn't equate to muzzle velocity etc - and anything under that doesn't go through troops and vehicles you say?? I used the word suppression, which doesn't mean non-lethal....it's the highest probability outcome of 20mm-25mm guns based on wider air-air designed dispersion, smaller HEI punch and a longer min-strafe distance (compounding dispersion) based on the speed of the aircraft carrying an M-61 vs a GAU-8. Of course, 30mm loaded with the wrong ammo type for the target may be only good for suppression as well. An example from Iraq 2003 - a couple of F-16s got called in under cloud cover at night so had to go to about 5000ft - the troops were intermingled with each other. The SOF controller waved a light they could pick up in NVGs and they dropped (JDAM?) bombs unguided where the guy wanted from the ref point which did the trick. An A-10 or AV-8 etc could have also done this. Wish I knew the full story. Sounds like the pilot tricked the system to a ballistic only release. I doubt the friendly troops were within 100m of the target, unless they were shielded by some strong walls. AFAIK, 5000ft deck is fairly workable for F-16s, especially with visual IR marks vice using a TGP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher54321 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) If they could, why would it lead to fratricide? What makes seeing people so much more prone to fratricide vs vehicles? There is no way to visually ID people at any speed or altitude and differentiate whos who especially when troops are close so a very high probability of fratricide if you take the chance. You need complete guidance from the ground first. Even in low intensity warfare - for example 2 A-10s on night CAS in OEF are given coordinates from the JTAC and then they fix the TGP on the location of the bad guys. They then spend time going though the ROE procedures and observing them along side the JTAC- then 10 mins later they got approval to strafe. Without a TGP they would have to spend a lot of effort keeping tabs on the actual location - but instead they can concentrate on more important things - like not flying into a mountain. True, even a TGP would be hard pressed to see through a dense canopy. If friendlies and enemies are close up, like fixed-bayonets style, then CAS will be of little or no help. Possibly but like below they may still want ordnance dropped near a given reference to help them out. Wish I knew the full story. Sounds like the pilot tricked the system to a ballistic only release. I doubt the friendly troops were within 100m of the target, unless they were shielded by some strong walls. AFAIK, 5000ft deck is fairly workable for F-16s, especially with visual IR marks vice using a TGP. It's a pilot account from https://ospreypublishing.com/f-16-fighting-falcon-units-of-operation-iraqi-freedom-pb - I havnt checked details but think it scared the Iraqis and allowed the SOF guys to escape. Pretty sure they can still drop PGM/IAMs etc in CCIP/CCRP modes like a dumb/gravity bomb. edit: This was a hectic and panicked situation the SOF controller was running for it but the F-16 guys (both got the Semper Viper award for this) managed to get out of him that a drop 3 clicks north of the light (firefly) would be away from friendlies so he pickled a GBU-12 in dumb bomb release (have to assume CCIP). Off target at 5000ft and staying fast 450 - 500kts due to MANPAD threat. Edited March 15, 2015 by Basher54321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 This video is probably good right about now for stirring up trouble in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if the vid was fake, just because its too damned amusing. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=558830810882063&set=vb.452716798160132&type=3&theater Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher54321 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 This video is probably good right about now for stirring up trouble in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if the vid was fake, just because its too damned amusing. Without the full context it is difficult to say - might be real - however I would guess the reason he might want A-10s has nothing to do with capability and more to do with the pilots CAS skills in sorting out complex CAS situations. Several accounts in OEF where A-10s got to an area which they describe as chaos and the pilots had to take charge and organize the multiple assets already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 This video is probably good right about now for stirring up trouble in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if the vid was fake, just because its too damned amusing. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=558830810882063&set=vb.452716798160132&type=3&theater A possible good point of discussion indeed, but anecdotal stuff always needs to be treated carefully. Who is to say that somewhere an A-10 ran into the same problem? Or that in a different situation (thicker air defenses) the A-10 wouldn't be calling in F-15's to do the job? Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelina1 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 A-10 & Chuck! I'd say it's a done deal, if Chuck Norris wants the Hawg! ;) :P :thumbup: http://www.businessinsider.com/chuck-norris-wants-to-save-the-a-10-2015-3 "Norris is producing and selling a T-shirt with the words “Save the A-10” on the front, and on the back, “Chuck Norris’ First Born Son was a Warthog. He cried tears of ‘BRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTT.” MSI MAG Z790 Carbon, i9-13900k, NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL40 6000mhz RAM, MSI RTX4090, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 4x 2TB Samsung 980 Pro NVMe, 1x 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD, Win 11 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, Varjo Aero, Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro2 Full Tower Case, Seasonic GX-1200 ATX3 PSU, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2, K-51 Helicopter Collective Control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted March 24, 2015 ED Team Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) I want that t-shirt as well :) https://www.booster.com/savea10kickstart Edited March 24, 2015 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowhand Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Sith, Thank you for that link..only 5 days left to order? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] SMOKE'M:smoke: IF YA GOT'M!:gun_rifle: H2o Cooler I7 9700k GA 390x MB Win 10 pro Evga RTX 2070 8Gig DD5 32 Gig Corsair Vengence, 2T SSD. TM.Warthog:joystick: :punk:, CV-1:matrix:,3x23" monitors, Tm MFD's, Saitek pro rudders wrapped up in 2 sheets of plywood:megalol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted March 24, 2015 ED Team Share Posted March 24, 2015 Looks like it... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcjonessnp175 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Just ordered, great cause and cool t-shirt I7 4770k @ 4.6, sli 980 evga oc edition, ssdx2, Sony 55 inch edid hack nvidia 3dvision. Volair sim pit, DK2 Oculus Rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Wow. He's 75! i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scared Donut Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 A10 Training in Poland Looks like the Poland armed forces is practicing on the A10. This plane will never die! :D, they are too awesome. http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/03/26/a-10-thunderbolt-training-poland/70490504/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBillKelsoe Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Could someone explain to me why Chuck Norris is the subject of mocking in Western civilisation? Is it because of his beard or attitude or movies that are unreal in nature (like perhaps shooting 100 guys with a single zig-zagging bullet)? AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagandolfo Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I dont think its mocking. everyone knows chuck is as hard as a coffin nail. in his movies he's a one man ass kicking machine, the reality is that he really is! no mocking, sir chuck of norris is metal!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimi_uy Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 WildBillKelsoe, I think you should keep it down. Or else Chuck might come knocking on your door... :p [sIGPIC]][/sIGPIC] Fuel Planning Tool | DCS: A-10C SADL MOD | Kimi's Arma 3 Mods | Twitch.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelina1 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 The First rule of Chuck Norris is: you do not talk about Chuck Norris. When the Boogeyman goes to sleep at night he checks his closet for Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris once shot down a German fighter plane with his finger, by yelling, "Bang!" Chuck Norris can divide by zero. (all seriousness, it is a great charity he's got). :thumbup: MSI MAG Z790 Carbon, i9-13900k, NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL40 6000mhz RAM, MSI RTX4090, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 4x 2TB Samsung 980 Pro NVMe, 1x 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD, Win 11 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, Varjo Aero, Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro2 Full Tower Case, Seasonic GX-1200 ATX3 PSU, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2, K-51 Helicopter Collective Control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowhand Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 ^^^^:megalol::thumbup::smartass::D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] SMOKE'M:smoke: IF YA GOT'M!:gun_rifle: H2o Cooler I7 9700k GA 390x MB Win 10 pro Evga RTX 2070 8Gig DD5 32 Gig Corsair Vengence, 2T SSD. TM.Warthog:joystick: :punk:, CV-1:matrix:,3x23" monitors, Tm MFD's, Saitek pro rudders wrapped up in 2 sheets of plywood:megalol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airway Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) So, tomorrow they are coming back to Spangdahlem in Germany, where they are based again since Febuary. Many Germans find it hilarious that it is officially prohibited to dance in this country on this friday, called "Karfreitag" (Good Friday), because it is a Christian religious holiday, but foreign military war planes are allowed to fly and conduct missions to support NATO pressure and propaganda against our russian friends. Same counts for the stunning "Dragoon Ride" they dragged through our streets, occupying the barracks they were based in once. Imagine the Russians doing the same, occupying the bases they lived in, in East Germany, in the 90s. We would have WWIII already. Crazy. Gives me headaches. Edited April 2, 2015 by Airway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 In the crosshairs of this A-10 pilot: the Islamic State Good account of A-10 action from Stars and Stripes http://www.stripes.com/news/us/in-the-crosshairs-of-this-a-10-pilot-the-islamic-state-1.339286 i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catastrophy Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I was wishing for that just yesterday, right before I teamussed a target and tried to china hat my sensors to it and then ragequit because my painfully designated target vanished with the cams and sensors slewing to idontknowwhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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