How to learn to dogfight

[Cool-Hand]

On 29 september 2015 : He posts on this forum "Stop complaining guys" Rudder improvements to k4.... " What more can we ask for".

On 3 October 2015 he posts "Trying DCS1.5 ..." "I still prefer Bos by far " On the bos forum .

On 6 October 2015 on this forum :

 

You couldn't make this stuff up.

Seriously, what on earth does pulling up posts by jcomm from here and other forums have anything to do with a thread about how to learn to dogfight?

[fastfreddie]

Can anyone post a track of the instant action dogfight from DCS 1.5? I've been doing it for about a week and the best I can get is go head-on with the mustang. I can never seem to get on his 6 and I'm pretty sure the AI would simply out turn me.

 

I occasionally lose sight of the ai and then it's on my 6. When this happens I just dive to reach about 500-600 km/h to get distance and then when it's far away enough do a hard turn. Usually works to regain some parity in the situation. Climbing when I'm far way with the mustang on my 6 gets me shot.

 

As far as high speed and low speed turns what values are those for the dora and mustang respectively? I find that at 400 km/h or 500 km/h turn I still get hit. I've also stalled and crashed a few times (it's hard to search for the bandit and look at the speed the same time). Usually stall somewhere less than 350 kph.

 

I'm a little rusty since I haven't flown the Dora alot in the last year but I threw together a couple of quick matches I ran in DCS 2.0. The external views are shaky since its hard to track both planes at the same time but you will get the idea. Use lag pursuit to get on his tail along with quick changes to the flaps (Up/Mid position) for better lift. Also work with using your rudder to complete maneuvers and throttle control. Hit me up sometime if you keep having trouble and we'll set up a private server. One day I'll get track view for a better representation.

 

[jester_]

On 29 september 2015 : He posts on this forum "Stop complaining guys" Rudder improvements to k4.... " What more can we ask for".

On 3 October 2015 he posts "Trying DCS1.5 ..." "I still prefer Bos by far " On the bos forum .

On 6 October 2015 on this forum :

 

You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

I mean, two months ago I was also kind of upset with the state of the 109 prior to the introduction of 1.5. Now I'm fairly pleased with it. The only thing missing for me is the ability to edit my gun loadouts, and also that smoke trail bug in the 109 and 190.

 

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

[dpatt711]

For practice is better than art. Your exercise does well without the art, but the art is not much good without the exercise. - Hanko Dobringer

My only advice is use custom labels. Gradually decreasing their opacity as you get better and better. It'll take you about 250 hours of dogfighting to get good, and after that about 50 hours for each airplane.

Edited December 11, 2015 by dpatt711

[ekg]

When I turned labels one I was able to shoot down the AI :) It takes some time but eventually I can get behind him since I know where he is.

 

Has anyone had a stall at 300 kph? For example I'm after the ai my speed is 300 and i'm not pulling on the stick too hard and the plane suddenly starts rolling. I'm finding my biggest challenge now , with labels one vs AI, is to not crash the plane

[Luzifer]

Has anyone had a stall at 300 kph? For example I'm after the ai my speed is 300 and i'm not pulling on the stick too hard and the plane suddenly starts rolling.

 

300 km/h isn't that fast and "not too hard" is relative. The problem with flying a sim is that you can't feel that you're pulling too hard - in a real plane you'd notice very much that you're suddenly at 6 g or whatever.

 

Just go to certain speeds, look at the g-meter and pull. That should give you a feel for how hard you can pull.

[Nedum]

When I turned labels one I was able to shoot down the AI :) It takes some time but eventually I can get behind him since I know where he is.

 

Has anyone had a stall at 300 kph? For example I'm after the ai my speed is 300 and i'm not pulling on the stick too hard and the plane suddenly starts rolling. I'm finding my biggest challenge now , with labels one vs AI, is to not crash the plane

 

It's a new "feature" since a few patches.

I do not know if this is right, but I know it's new!

It's a "German plane" thing.

The 109 got it at first and with 1.5.x the D-9 was gifted with this feature too.

It's noticed at high AoA.

What I have noticed is that I can't pull high Gs anymore with the D-9. Or better, much less as before.

Before 1.5.x 4-6 G-Force were no problem. Now I have a hard time to pull the same G-Forces as before.

This new stall feature makes it impossible. It's like a G-Force limiter for me.

And I have the feeling that the D-9 has lost power.

Loops with a good speed were really easy before 1.5.x. With 1.5.x the D-9 eats speed like she is a brick wall and even she is falling down to earth it's like there is a parachute at the tail.

In 1.2.6 she gained fast good speed during a flat dive, with 1.5.x I need wep power to get the same result. It's like a invisible wall.

With the P51 I can do easy loops at any speed, and I can pull G-Forces with the P51D I can only dream with the German fighters. If I try it with the German planes I get the same things as you have said. Always a stall.

I have flown 100+ dog fights against the AI with each prop plane and suddenly with a patch in 1.5.x all my times to kill the AI changes for all three planes. How that?

Now I am twice as fast with the P51D as with 1.2.6 and I need 4 times longer with the D9 and 2 times longer with the K4 to kill the P51D.

I can and will not believe that I have lost all of my knowledge how to fly for all 3 planes at the same time! That's impossible! Because the plane I have flown not so often is now the one I am better with! That's crazy!

The P51D feels like before but the German planes are completely different.

For me it feels like the German planes have lost weight and power (the loss of power to compensate the loss of mass) this makes the planes so unstable during high AoA maneuvers and let them lose faster speed.

It would fit with this new brake feature only behave for the German planes. 10 mph are enough to drill the nose in the ground if I brake suddenly!

Only a mind game but there is something extreme strange with the D-9!

Edited January 13, 2016 by Nedum

[Solty]

When I turned labels one I was able to shoot down the AI :) It takes some time but eventually I can get behind him since I know where he is.

 

Has anyone had a stall at 300 kph? For example I'm after the ai my speed is 300 and i'm not pulling on the stick too hard and the plane suddenly starts rolling. I'm finding my biggest challenge now , with labels one vs AI, is to not crash the plane

 

If u are stalling that means u are pulling too hard:smartass:

 

Have u tried to change your curves for the elevator? If you work with those you can change the sensitivity artificially creating a longer stick travel. That can help you with the too abrupt stalls you experience. Just don't over do it, because you can hinder your ability to pull max possible deflection at certain speeds.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

It depends on your AoA.

 

The Fw190 is known to have that insidious spin ( or stall with one wing dropping abruptly ) characteristic...

[Talisman_VR]

I think perhaps AI pilot behavior has been improved, so may not be all down to aircraft changes when fighting AI.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[humptydumpty]

DGFT conserve fuel , use the three energies , maintain SA and don't loose sight.

 

I get that wing drop when banking above 80 AOB the right / left wing tends to get less LIFT in fact the nose drops. But it happens when I am fast,I don't know what speed but will check.

 

The Dora is a pretty agile and maneuverable aircraft.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

And it drops to the outside of the turn.

 

I've seen, with my eyes, what a skidding turn on a base leg can do to a glider, and it's pilot :-/ - flipping to the outside of the turn, upside down, at 500'

[humptydumpty]

Will try some stunts with the Dora tonight on the ACG server. Prefer just flying her than getting into combat.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Ohhhhhh :-(

 

Just now that I was getting ready to pick a Pony and get on your 6 :-)

[humptydumpty]

Some combat is fun

[IronJockel]

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Great!!!!

[ekg]

How do you evade a p-51 that's on your tail? The AI is easy just start doing scissors and eventually you'll shake him off. In MP it's a different story. It just doesn't work... It also doesn't help that the D-9 loses energy fast. Advice?

[dooom]

A long time ago in a sim far far away, a wise master BMBM wrote for his pupils a codex of learned disciplines filled with magical principles and ideas for thwarting our heavenly foes.

 

I give thee the Book of Noob:

http://www.emdev.de/bookofnoob.html

 

 

Oh yeah... Johan also wrote "In Pursuit" which was a bit more serious and technical but much is still to be learned from Book of Noob for sure: [ame]http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/lento_ohjeet/inpursuit/inpursuit.pdf[/ame]

[Hadwell]

http://navyflightmanuals.tpub.com/P-1222/

[Dieter]

How do you evade a p-51 that's on your tail? The AI is easy just start doing scissors and eventually you'll shake him off. In MP it's a different story. It just doesn't work... It also doesn't help that the D-9 loses energy fast. Advice?

In this case I try to evade doing barrels an scisors. In some case i try to evade going strait to the ground: I gain speed and then i stay really near the ground making scisors again if my opponent is very close. I hope it helps you :smilewink:

[gavagai]

Vertical scissors work fine in the 190 against a human-controlled P-51. Flat scissors not so much. You have to work the vertical because that is where the 190 is much better than the P-51.

[TWC_SLAG]

A long time ago in a sim far far away, a wise master BMBM wrote for his pupils a codex of learned disciplines filled with magical principles and ideas for thwarting our heavenly foes.

 

I give thee the Book of Noob:

http://www.emdev.de/bookofnoob.html

 

 

Oh yeah... Johan also wrote "In Pursuit" which was a bit more serious and technical but much is still to be learned from Book of Noob for sure: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/lento_ohjeet/inpursuit/inpursuit.pdf

 

I might add that the book is free. Google: In Pursuit pdf

[bmezz]

Does anyone else have issues with the damage model vs. a P51? It is similar to the Sabre vs. Mig. I am blasting away on the P51---scoring hits---not only am I not bringing it down, there is no decrease in the P51s abilites. I would think as it takes damage it would at least start to suffer some issues (engine/ flight stability)...

[arglmauf]

Does anyone else have issues with the damage model vs. a P51? It is similar to the Sabre vs. Mig. I am blasting away on the P51---scoring hits---not only am I not bringing it down, there is no decrease in the P51s abilites. I would think as it takes damage it would at least start to suffer some issues (engine/ flight stability)...

 

That would depend on several factors:

 

-What weapon is actually hitting? The 20mm are quite devastating and usually force me to abandon the battle after 2-3 hits.

-What distance do you hit from? Further away means less punching power.

-Where do you hit? Wing hits, while reducing the energy retention, can be sustained. Hits around the nose usually mean loss of RPM control or Manifold pressure and that means get out for the P51.

 

Do know that certain hits don't look critical but mean highly reduced combat capabilities.

Edited April 20, 2016 by arglmauf