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included theater discussion


remi
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Yeah, Iceland was also the first thing that came to my mind. That really reminds me of Red Storm Rising!

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Ocean and cold' date=' makes me think of iceland. Didnt they station a lot of f14's there to intercept in case the soviet went past scandinavia?[/quote']

 

There were F-15s stationed at Keflavik AB (also depicted in Red Storm Rising), but no Tomcats were routinely shore based outside of the US. The exception is NAS Atsugi, but it's is in association with CVW-5 and USS Independence/USS Kitty Hawk, not really a shore deployment.

 

However, the North Sea around Iceland was a very active area for the USN and would offer plenty for a great Tomcat campaign.

 

Sounds like either North Sea or Bering Sea will be it. Great stuff either way.

 

-Nick

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Ocean and cold' date=' makes me think of iceland. Didnt they station a lot of f14's there to intercept in case the soviet went past scandinavia?[/quote']

 

The Air Force has the 57th FIS at Keflavik with F-89's, F-102's, F-4's or F-15's during the cold war for intercepting Russian bombers. The Navy had P-3 Orion or P-2 Neptune squadrons there on a rotational basis to prosecute the submarines trying to get past the GIUK gap. The Tomcats were assigned to the carrier air wings as fleet defenders. If a carrier was sunk or badly damaged the Tomcats might be assigned to defend Iceland but they were not normally based there.

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"Very oceany. Very cold." is a very nice piece of information and makes us Cold War fans very happy :)

 

I think another very significat statement is this:

 

Q: Will Carrier Operations be included at Release?

A: We are networking together with our partners to ensure a complete package upon release, however the complex nature of the task at hand lends itself to a cautious approach in saying anything definitive.

 

So if inclusion of carrier ops upon release is uncertain (because this is developed by ED rather than LNS), we could conclude that they are working on a map which includes an allied airbase for the Tomcat to operate from.

 

Lets look at the possible "Very oceany. Very cold." theaters from a technical point of view (rather than what we would preferre):

 

1. Iceland - This map has the problem that it has only airbases for one side. The Soviet bombers would have to be spawned at the edge of the map (because their bases on the Kola peninsula are 2500 Km away). Not having a valid airbase to return to unfortunately plays havoc on the DCS AI. In addition Iceland is quite big, probably bigger than many are aware of. Since Kevlavik is the S-W corner of Iceland and the Soviet bombers are approaching from the N-E from the Norwegian Sea, the complete island would have to be modeled. All in all I think it is not very likely.

 

2. Iceland Partial - The scenario is that Iceland has been invaded by the USSR (rather unlikely, but possible) and that they are basing aircraft at Kevlavik. Only the S-W part of Iceland would have to be modeled as operations would concentrate on NATO naval forces operating to the south of Iceland in the North Atlantic. The big problem with the map is that it requires carrier ops for the Tomcat.

 

3. North Cape - Soviet forces on the Kola, NATO forces in North Norway. A classic Cold War scenario with bases in fighter range of each other. But the landmass to model would be huge, so I think unlikely as LNS' first map is supposed to be small.

 

4. Kola Partial - Just the area around Murmansk with its Soviet airbases modeled in depth with NATO naval forces operating to the north in the Barents Sea. Another classic scenario, but it also depends on carrier ops for the Tomcat.

 

5. Kamchatka-Aleutians - Just the area around Petropavlovsk with its Soviet airbases modeled, with US forces operating to the east from the Aleutians. So far technically this sounds the most likely.

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I think Kamchatka and a big oceanic area in front of it with Aleutians will be perfect. In the images we can see what can found in Petropavlovsk for example (pic 1). It has a big port with many warships, and some airbases plenty or mig 25 and su27 and A50 and Tu-22 I have seen in google maps, etc etc.

Is perfect to F14 and for F18 when they will arrive to us.

 

We have a lor of water, enough land for ground attacks, and a lot ot islands to hide ships, subs, paratroopers, sams, instalations .... with airbases, at least 2 I founded.

 

I think that the theatre must be like pic MAP. Enough sea to set some fleets, hide them in distance, and then each one trying to find the other. Enough land to ground attacks, and easy to model for their first theatre . A big campaign can be done here with lot of different missions types: Red Storm Rising II

 

Is my opinion...

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Edited by Radar Rider
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it sounds somewhere on Northern area

 

I agree... but earth isn't westeros, south could be cold too... Patagonia? :S

 

(If I have to put 2cents... Iceland and a shore of Greenland).

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... and last three

 

I prefer theatres 1 and 6

And both are easily to model. Lot of sea and few land. Iceland is big ... but few towns and no very bigs

 

Last Theatre is about 2300 km wide. High ... that depends of makers.

This is enough for a long fly time mission of su27 escorting Tu22M in antiship strike while some Bear are searching the US fleet that have departed from Alaskan coast few days ago, and is protected by long range CAP F14, and by other hand a few F-15C flights taking off from Attu and Shemya islands searching too the soviet fleet in the ocean.. Posibilities for missions, coop, and campaigns are a lot

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Edited by Radar Rider
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"Very oceany. Very cold." is a very nice piece of information and makes us Cold War fans very happy :)

 

1. Iceland - This map has the problem that it has only airbases for one side. The Soviet bombers would have to be spawned at the edge of the map (because their bases on the Kola peninsula are 2500 Km away). Not having a valid airbase to return to unfortunately plays havoc on the DCS AI. In addition Iceland is quite big, probably bigger than many are aware of. Since Kevlavik is the S-W corner of Iceland and the Soviet bombers are approaching from the N-E from the Norwegian Sea, the complete island would have to be modeled. All in all I think it is not very likely.

2. Iceland Partial - The scenario is that Iceland has been invaded by the USSR (rather unlikely, but possible) and that they are basing aircraft at Kevlavik. Only the S-W part of Iceland would have to be modeled as operations would concentrate on NATO naval forces operating to the south of Iceland in the North Atlantic. The big problem with the map is that it requires carrier ops for the Tomcat.

 

Iceland is 50% bigger than Georgia so it would be too time demanding to model it for a small theater to go with the Tomcat.

 

But for the partial part, you could have the Isle of Lewis with RAF Stornoway airbase and this southern part of Iceland including the Keflavik airbase (maybe Reykjavik could be left out). Since it's an alternate history scenario, the Soviet side could use the Kuznetsov class carriers, too (too bad the MiG-29K is not present in DCS World).

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The problem of choice one theater or another is think in both sides, red and blue. The makers have to think in a theatre that can be useful for most of the planes we can fly, choppers, Combined Arms .. and all they know is coming, public or not public yet.

So, both carriers have to be set , thats easy. But for the other who want to fly Mig-21, or Mi-8, or A-10 ... At least have to be a logic airbase in each side.

 

But, that depends of the time they have to build it. Dense populate areas like georgia, compared to Iceland, take more time even if it is smaller, I think. Kamchatka is empty of roads, cities, ports. Just the Petropavlovsk area. So I think the entire peninsula can be modeled quickly, like the aleutians islands. The rest is water.

Iceland, maybe the same.

 

But if all is water ... well, we have F14 and F-18, but, the rest of fighters what? I think they are thinking in this item and they want, I think, to release a theatre that the most of us will can use in diferent ways.

 

I hope not to wait very much to know where we will fly the tomcat

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First thing I thought when I saw that hint was something in the vicinity of the Aleutians. It's certainly cold and oceany there, has very few towns of any significance and allows for land bases on both US and Russian territory. It has the other advantage of being absolutely huge and yet still have very little land to model. I don't see any good options in the Atlantic unless it's going to be Greenland vs Iceland or some such scenario.

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First thing I thought when I saw that hint was something in the vicinity of the Aleutians. It's certainly cold and oceany there, has very few towns of any significance and allows for land bases on both US and Russian territory. It has the other advantage of being absolutely huge and yet still have very little land to model. I don't see any good options in the Atlantic unless it's going to be Greenland vs Iceland or some such scenario.

 

I agree completely. A map for the Atlantic Fleet would be absolutely fantastic, but strategic geography there tends towards large maps to be useful. Certainly a great goal further down the road. For an easier start, landmass size, infrastructure complexity and gameplay considerations seem to favor the North Pacific option. Which I also think is great, because it was a strategically significant area.

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Maybe they will be doing NAS Adak? Now a decommissioned airbase handed over to the local Alaskan tribes. Adak was once a thriving naval base and air station at the peak of the cold war.

 

http://web.mst.edu/~rogersda/military_service/adak.htm

 

YES! This is exactly what we need.

 

An Aleutians map with NAS Adak would allow for both Tomcat carrier Ops and realistic scenarios for shore ops (in case the carrier stuff isn't ready around the time of module release). It would also expand the number of possible scenarios - plus offering a divert for some bad weather situations.

 

Also, they could set-up an IFLOLs for FCLP/carrier ops practice before heading to the boat.

 

I looked up Operation Coyote - it was a recurring op to rapidly deploy Miramar F-14s to Adak for patrol operations. Many different squadrons participated during the 1980s.

 

Finally, there are some USAF bases nearby (Eareckson Air Station) that would allow for USAF cooperation as well.

 

Seems like this would nicely balance campaign needs, training needs, and add a theater that would be great for VVS operations (MiG-21Bis and hopefully an eventual MiG-23 or MiG-25).

 

Hopefully, you read their mind...

 

-Nick

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In addition, Eareckson Air Station on Shemya (which is even closer to Petropavlovsk than Adak) would have received P-3 for ASW patrols in wartime and almost certainly some Marine air. And of course it was also a prime location for shore deployment of carrier air in special situations.

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