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That would be an interesting theater, very carrier focused.

 

However, I would strongly advocate for this small map:

 

Theater_F-14.jpg

 

This was the operational training area for the F-14 on the West Coast. It include Miramar, El Centro, and Yuma, AZ. These were the major operational bases for the F-14, including the master jet station of Miramar that includes TopGun (which could also be used for the Hornet, prior to 1996), NAF El Centro where Tomcats would practice day/night FCLP and ACM, and Yuma which was used for ACM detachments and was the site of ACEVAL/AIMVAL.

 

This whole map could be 200x150 miles (320x240 km) and still include all of those training area, plus add some open ocean - where a lot of ACM training also took place. This would be even smaller than the Hormuz map and much smaller than NTTR. The image I've shown is actually more like 200x80 miles.

 

It's fairly urban, but concentrated. The area right around San Diego is pretty dense, though as this map shows, it pretty desolate within ~10-20 miles of the coast. Even more so in the 1980s and early 1990s. The area around NAS Oceana is actually much more urban (Norfolk with lots of other cities nearby).

 

I think this would be the ultimate F-14 map for immersion and intense training. Can still use the Hormuz map for combat and it actually happened for CVW-11 (VF-213 and VF-114) in 1988.

 

My 2 cents.

This would definitely be on my top 3 list. It comes very close to being no1, but i am just not sure if it has enough open sea for any dissent carrier operations.

Current modules:

FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map......ah yes, forgot the Super Carrier! Shows you how often i fly these days....

Modules in waiting: MiG-23, A-6, F-4U, F-8, Falklands Map

Wish list: South East Asia map, F-4J/N, F-15A/C, Su-27, Sea Harrier FRS.1, Mirage III, MiG-17.

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This would definitely be on my top 3 list. It comes very close to being no1, but i am just not sure if it has enough open sea for any dissent carrier operations.

 

If you don't mind my asking, what is number 1? Combat theater like Southern Med or Indian ocean? Those would also be be great, though I want a place to practice FCLP. It's fun and pretty necessary with a difficult to handle aircraft like the Tomcat. Landing the Tomcat is supposed to be the hardest thing to do with it.

 

-Nick

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That would be an interesting theater, very carrier focused.

 

However, I would strongly advocate for this small map:

 

This was the operational training area for the F-14 on the West Coast. It include Miramar, El Centro, and Yuma, AZ. These were the major operational bases for the F-14, including the master jet station of Miramar that includes TopGun (which could also be used for the Hornet, prior to 1996), NAF El Centro where Tomcats would practice day/night FCLP and ACM, and Yuma which was used for ACM detachments and was the site of ACEVAL/AIMVAL.

 

This whole map could be 200x150 miles (320x240 km) and still include all of those training area, plus add some open ocean - where a lot of ACM training also took place. This would be even smaller than the Hormuz map and much smaller than NTTR. The image I've shown is actually more like 200x80 miles.

 

It's fairly urban, but concentrated. The area right around San Diego is pretty dense, though as this map shows, it pretty desolate within ~10-20 miles of the coast. Even more so in the 1980s and early 1990s. The area around NAS Oceana is actually much more urban (Norfolk with lots of other cities nearby).

 

I think this would be the ultimate F-14 map for immersion and intense training. Can still use the Hormuz map for combat and it actually happened for CVW-11 (VF-213 and VF-114) in 1988.

 

My 2 cents.

 

If you extend it just a little farther north MCAS El Toro could be included for the Hornet. It was home to the west coast Marine Corp Hornet squadrons before the move to Miramar.

 

Edit: Actually I think it is under the tab for traffic bicycling directions right on the top edge.


Edited by Vampyre

Truly superior pilots are those that use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills.

 

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

 

"If at first you don't succeed, Carrier Landings are not for you!"

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If you don't mind my asking, what is number 1? Combat theater like Southern Med or Indian ocean?

 

-Nick

You are actually reading my mind :D

Current modules:

FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map......ah yes, forgot the Super Carrier! Shows you how often i fly these days....

Modules in waiting: MiG-23, A-6, F-4U, F-8, Falklands Map

Wish list: South East Asia map, F-4J/N, F-15A/C, Su-27, Sea Harrier FRS.1, Mirage III, MiG-17.

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I would assume the map would be something simple with no major cities and either a lot of water or flat land. Southern California is not not a realistic expectation. Accurate options include a sliver of Libya + open water, the Kuril Islands mentioned previously or a chunk of the Iran/Iraq border with a whole lot of nothing in it. There is of course another option, and that's a fictional generic type map. In that setup, they could do just about anything they want.

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I would assume the map would be something simple with no major cities and either a lot of water or flat land. Southern California is not not a realistic expectation. Accurate options include a sliver of Libya + open water, the Kuril Islands mentioned previously or a chunk of the Iran/Iraq border with a whole lot of nothing in it. There is of course another option, and that's a fictional generic type map. In that setup, they could do just about anything they want.

 

SoCal would involve a lot of structures, similar to Vegas in the NTTR map (which is actually a pretty big urban sprawl with lots of houses). That said, you could create 5-10 prototypical houses, vary the color a bit, and reuse the shapes over and over. The architecture is not that variable (I visit often because my wife is from there - visiting the in-laws). Limiting the north-south extension of the map would help since things are really concentrated on the coast. Head inland things drop off fast.

 

Though, you're right. It would be a much bigger undertaking than a desolate Libyan coastline (though the areas where airstrikes took place also has bing cities).

 

Also, this wouldn't be their first map, it would be the second or third. Their first map will probably be what you described, islands with very few structures and lots of trees - the Solomon Islands!

 

The tough part is that a "Tomcat specific" map is either:

1. Open ocean with an enemy coastline (but then no good training opportunities except for Red Flag like stuff if you own NTTR). The Tomcat is hard to fly and learning to land only on a carrier would be really tough. It would be nice to have a training area, but I can see some preferring a combat zone with Black Sea/NTTR for training.

 

2. NAS Key West (a good choice - lots of Island with open training and moderate population density). Would also allow for FCLP, but no carrier qualification training. The carriers don't operate near that area.

 

3. NAS Miramar/SoCal - opportunity for basic flight/landing training, ACM training, and carrier quals. Doesn't facilitate true combat ops, but a thorough ACM training campaign could be amazing and interesting. Yes, dense housing/moderate sized city nearby.

 

4. NAS Oceana - opportunity for basic flight/landing training, some similar (minimal dis-similar) ACM training, and carrier quals. Even denser than SoCal with more large cities (like Norfolk and Virginia Beach) nearby.

 

I don't know what is feasible or how ambitious LNS' plans are.

 

-Nick

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Why would they make a map for training purposes? None of the other DCS aircraft have a special training area. For training, any airfield will work just fine, nothing special is required. So I'm betting the map will be a hotspot of some sort where the associated player plane will either have fought or seemed likely to fight.

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That would be an interesting theater, very carrier focused.

 

However, I would strongly advocate for this small map:

 

Theater_F-14.jpg

 

This was the operational training area for the F-14 on the West Coast. It include Miramar, El Centro, and Yuma, AZ. These were the major operational bases for the F-14, including the master jet station of Miramar that includes TopGun (which could also be used for the Hornet, prior to 1996), NAF El Centro where Tomcats would practice day/night FCLP and ACM, and Yuma which was used for ACM detachments and was the site of ACEVAL/AIMVAL.

 

This whole map could be 200x150 miles (320x240 km) and still include all of those training area, plus add some open ocean - where a lot of ACM training also took place. This would be even smaller than the Hormuz map and much smaller than NTTR. The image I've shown is actually more like 200x80 miles.

 

It's fairly urban, but concentrated. The area right around San Diego is pretty dense, though as this map shows, it pretty desolate within ~10-20 miles of the coast. Even more so in the 1980s and early 1990s. The area around NAS Oceana is actually much more urban (Norfolk with lots of other cities nearby).

 

I think this would be the ultimate F-14 map for immersion and intense training. Can still use the Hormuz map for combat and it actually happened for CVW-11 (VF-213 and VF-114) in 1988.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Excellent reasons for why it should be Miramar.

 

And 30th anniversary of TOP GUN is 2016. :pilotfly:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Antarctica. :)

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Here is another Pacific option: Southern Kamchatka and Western Aleutians.

 

Complexity: Amount of landmass similar to Nevada, mostly wilderness, very little infrastructure. Peropavlovsk city, harbour and air base. Attu air station, Shemya air base.

 

Strategic significance: Petropavlovsk was to most important submarine base of the Soviet Pacific Fleet with free access to the open ocean. A primary target for the carriers of the US Pacific Fleet. Attu housed a US LORAN station with a small airstrip. Shemya hosted a US strategic surveillance radar and a modern airbase.

kamchatka.thumb.jpg.79427bc326c530b1fbe87fd47244682f.jpg

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Why would they make a map for training purposes? None of the other DCS aircraft have a special training area. For training, any airfield will work just fine, nothing special is required. So I'm betting the map will be a hotspot of some sort where the associated player plane will either have fought or seemed likely to fight.

 

The carrier aircraft (upcoming F/A-18 and F-14) would be well-served by an area for FCLP practice, especially given the very accurate flight models in DCS. P3D/FSX flight models tend to be simpler, though the Aerosoft F-14 (for FSX/P3D) is quite a handful on landing, more so than the MiG-21Bis, TF-51D, Su-27, or F-15C in DCS. Especially if they require prototypical landing parameters for arrested landings (as in the aircraft needs to be "on-speed and on the right AOA") with failure of the arresting gear with too much speed, then practice will be quite necessary. With the Aerosoft F-14, you can mitigate some of these issues by flying a fast approach, ~150 kts (P3D doesn't model failures of the arresting gear from fast approaches). At that speed, the aircraft handles much better, but the arresting gear can't handle the load at that speed (in reality), hence the 125 kt approach speed at 15 units of AOA.

 

For some reason, a map that focuses on the Tomcat's home base feels like a better choice. Both the black sea and strait of hormuz could host combat missions quite accurately, but semi-accurate training missions and practicing essential carrier skills is lacking in current maps. Even NTTR isn't really accurate for FCLP, because it's ~1800' above sea level. When USN crews visit either Fallon or Nellis, they take a hop to El Centro for FCLP (it's a 30 min flight). These are small points to some, but thats why I'd actually prefer a map for training. Only my thoughts.

 

-Nick

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...the Aerosoft F-14 (for FSX/P3D) is quite a handful on landing, more so than the MiG-21Bis, TF-51D, Su-27, or F-15C in DCS. Especially if they require prototypical landing parameters for arrested landings (as in the aircraft needs to be "on-speed and on the right AOA") with failure of the arresting gear with too much speed, then practice will be quite necessary. With the Aerosoft F-14, you can mitigate some of these issues by flying a fast approach, ~150 kts (P3D doesn't model failures of the arresting gear from fast approaches). At that speed, the aircraft handles much better, but the arresting gear can't handle the load at that speed (in reality), hence the 125 kt approach speed at 15 units of AOA.

...

You fly the Aerosoft F-14 a well? I fly it in FSX with acceleration and tack pack. I am yet to make consistent 3rd wire -750ft/min traps, but 2nd wires are more and more often. My greatest bother is the lack of trim wheel/cap on my stick, so flying the last part of the approach at 15 units alpha is bit of a handful....

 

BTW, i do get the feeling that quite often, if i slam it on the deck with more then 140knots i do get killed.... is that how failure of the arresting gear is simulated?

Current modules:

FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map......ah yes, forgot the Super Carrier! Shows you how often i fly these days....

Modules in waiting: MiG-23, A-6, F-4U, F-8, Falklands Map

Wish list: South East Asia map, F-4J/N, F-15A/C, Su-27, Sea Harrier FRS.1, Mirage III, MiG-17.

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You fly the Aerosoft F-14 a well? I fly it in FSX with acceleration and tack pack. I am yet to make consistent 3rd wire -750ft/min traps, but 2nd wires are more and more often. My greatest bother is the lack of trim wheel/cap on my stick, so flying the last part of the approach at 15 units alpha is bit of a handful....

 

BTW, i do get the feeling that quite often, if i slam it on the deck with more then 140knots i do get killed.... is that how failure of the arresting gear is simulated?

 

Yes, having accessible trim makes a HUGE difference. This would really help to keep AOA between 13-16.

 

I haven't tried a trap at higher speeds, but I've seen people trap faster in posted videos. I practiced FCLP at El Centro (FSX Blue Angels update with a IFLOL by the runway) for a long time before heading to the boat. This helped tremendously. I have that P3D bug where the ball on the Kitty Hawk disappears after a few minutes, so I haven't been practicing much at the boat - without the ball I find myself with a fair number of ramp strikes...:music_whistling:

 

You might be right, landing at more than 140 might be fatal...but I haven't seen that yet.

 

BTW, the aerosoft F-14 single-handedly brought me back into flightsims after a 12 year hiatus. You can imagine my excitement in the announcement of an even more detailed F-14 sim!

 

LNS F-14 project actually brought me to DCS as well and now I've also bought their MiG-21. Looking forward to buying more!

 

Best,

 

Nick

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I think the Answer is simple:

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If you don't mind my asking, what is number 1? Combat theater like Southern Med or Indian ocean? Those would also be be great, though I want a place to practice FCLP. It's fun and pretty necessary with a difficult to handle aircraft like the Tomcat. Landing the Tomcat is supposed to be the hardest thing to do with it.

 

-Nick

 

I had thought the same thing. Lots of good options, Soviet mass attacks, wandering Bears, Indian MiG-21Bis's, endless scenarios.

 

That said, I still like my other ideas too.

 

-Nick

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That would be an interesting theater, very carrier focused.

 

However, I would strongly advocate for this small map:

 

Theater_F-14.jpg

 

 

I find it Very interesting that you chose the Area you did. I agree, this would be the absolute best map possible for "Tomcat Specific" ops.

 

I find it interesting, because it would essentially be NTTR extended. The northern edge of the map you uploaded, Almost matches up with the southern edge of the NTTR map perfectly.

 

Although, it does encompass the Entire San Diego area, and the vast majority of the L.A. basin. Sadly, my gut tells me this is a little too extreme for a free included theater. An operational area map like that would be as important as the Tomcat is, as it's own separate product. I would gladly pay $99 dollars for a SoCal map, if that price would motivate it to actually be created. It would have to include: El Torro, Camp Pendelton, Miramar, North Island, and Yuma though for that price. San Clemente and Catalina Island would make naval ops a little more interesting as well. -Woog


Edited by Woogey
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I find it Very interesting that you chose the Area you did. I agree, this would be the absolute best map possible for "Tomcat Specific" ops.

 

I find it interesting, because it would essentially be NTTR extended. The northern edge of the map you uploaded, Almost matches up with the southern edge of the NTTR map perfectly.

 

Although, it does encompass the Entire San Diego area, and the vast majority of the L.A. basin. Sadly, my gut tells me this is a little too extreme for a free included theater. An operational area map like that would be as important as the Tomcat is, as it's own separate product. I would gladly pay $99 dollars for a SoCal map, if that price would motivate it to actually be created. It would have to include: El Torro, Camp Pendelton, Miramar, North Island, and Yuma though for that price. San Clemente and Catalina Island would make naval ops a little more interesting as well. -Woog

 

I would also be willing to pay for it as a separate map. Your right, that is the more likely scenario, but it would definitely be worth the money. I'd also be willing to pay~$100.

 

Would be amazing for both Tomcat and Hornet ops. Could be released a TopGun/ACM training package with accurate scenarios.

 

One can dream...

 

-Nick

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I haven't tried a trap at higher speeds, but I've seen people trap faster in posted videos. I practiced FCLP at El Centro (FSX Blue Angels update with a IFLOL by the runway) for a long time before heading to the boat. This helped tremendously. I have that P3D bug where the ball on the Kitty Hawk disappears after a few minutes, so I haven't been practicing much at the boat - without the ball I find myself with a fair number of ramp strikes...:music_whistling:

 

.......

BTW, the aerosoft F-14 single-handedly brought me back into flightsims after a 12 year hiatus. You can imagine my excitement in the announcement of an even more detailed F-14 sim!

 

LNS F-14 project actually brought me to DCS as well and now I've also bought their MiG-21. Looking forward to buying more!

 

Best,

 

Nick

I know how that feels. I find it very hard to resist that feel of overshooting the wires. No1 traps were by far the most common ones (like 50% of all traps) until about 2 weeks ago. Fortunately the ball does work throughout the glide path on my version. I just need to rewire the way my perception works :) . BTW, i made my own carrier qualification mission on the coast of California, where i practice BFM against drones as well.

 

As for the F-14X, well yeah, almost. I started with TMF F-14 for the SF2 last year, after almost a decade of fasting, but it was Aerosoft that really brought me back into the "hot seat". Can't wait for this one. After all, the bird was made for combat and a military sim is where it belongs the most :joystick:

Current modules:

FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map......ah yes, forgot the Super Carrier! Shows you how often i fly these days....

Modules in waiting: MiG-23, A-6, F-4U, F-8, Falklands Map

Wish list: South East Asia map, F-4J/N, F-15A/C, Su-27, Sea Harrier FRS.1, Mirage III, MiG-17.

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Has anyone mentioned Calverton, NY? It's where Grumman built and tested the F-14.

 

It would be pretty neat to have Long Island and Long Island sound, although like the Nevada map, you'd have to imagine any conflict in the area. It is quite nostalgic though.

 

IMG_1510-S.jpg

 

Super%20Tomcat%20over%20Calverton.jpg

 

EDIT: My dad works for Grumman(now Northrop Grumman) and used to bring my family to the "Grumman Picnics" out in Calverton. They used to fly 2 F-14s overhead, right over the treetops (must have been late 80s) and I remember it shaking my insides. It made me appreciate and love the F-14 ever since.


Edited by KaspeR32

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If you were to scale the Extension that Nick has "Proposed" to fit the NTTR Map it would look a little closer to this:

 

1993903710_NTTRExtended.thumb.jpg.de070d2d79ed556a946d47f48167b0d4.jpg

 

The Blue Line at the top of the Image is the NTTR Map border. This SoCal Extension would be useful for The F/A-18C at El Toro, the Tomcat at Miramar, and for Razbam's Harrier at Yuma when it is finished. If we ever get a Whiskey Cobra, Twin Huey, or a Phrog, those are all based at Camp Pendelton. NAS North Island, is home to SH-60's, S-3 vikings, and C-2 Greyhounds, Just for fun, look what I spotted out on San Clemente Island. (a Mig-23) -Woog

 

670691031_SanClementeMig-23.thumb.jpg.b944f7ec271b557f28f3054955d9717f.jpg

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If you were to scale the Extension that Nick has "Proposed" to fit the NTTR Map it would look a little closer to this:

 

[ATTACH]115731[/ATTACH]

 

The Blue Line at the top of the Image is the NTTR Map border. This SoCal Extension would be useful for The F/A-18C at El Toro, the Tomcat at Miramar, and for Razbam's Harrier at Yuma when it is finished. If we ever get a Whiskey Cobra, Twin Huey, or a Phrog, those are all based at Camp Pendelton. NAS North Island, is home to SH-60's, S-3 vikings, and C-2 Greyhounds, Just for fun, look what I spotted out on San Clemente Island. (a Mig-23) -Woog

 

[ATTACH]115732[/ATTACH]

 

Nice find! I kept my version smaller in the North-South direction to avoid the Horrors of trying to model LA.

 

It would be quite a map, I'd forgotten how many other bases are in the area. I was mostly thinking about Miramar, EL Centro, and Yuma - the classic USN west coast ACM venues.

 

-Nick

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Yes, SoCal would be an Amazing scenario terrain. So many military bases. I know my version is a bit larger, but it also opens up the possibility of attack from south of the Border. IE CUBA, promotes an overthrow of the Mexican government through the drug cartels, backed by other Communist factions. Could make for some real interesting gameplay. Lots of open desert for combined arms operations. -Woog

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  • 1 month later...

Seeing this:

 

Q: Which theatre will be included with the F-14?

A: Very oceany. Very cold.

The F-14 Campaign will take place in this theatre.

 

I still think it will be the Aleutians. But the GIUK gap and the North Cape can be other possibilities too.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

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