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Once in the grass - always in the grass?


Kobymaru
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Once I get to the grass, there is no way to get out. Is this correct? Is the grass some sort of super-glue? Or a swamp?

 

I get that grass isnt meant to be used for Takeoff/Landing, but being stuck forever seems a bit of harsh punishment for rolling off. Is this really intended?

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I was towing an F-4. I was an idiot at the time (perhaps I still am) and I turned a corner a bit early. The starboard mainmount on the F-4 eased into the grass and we slowly came to a stop. The tow tractor could not pull it out. I disconnected and drove back to the line shack. End of story for me. But, somehow, my crew mates got it out.

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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I was towing an F-4. I was an idiot at the time (perhaps I still am) and I turned a corner a bit early. The starboard mainmount on the F-4 eased into the grass and we slowly came to a stop. The tow tractor could not pull it out. I disconnected and drove back to the line shack. End of story for me. But, somehow, my crew mates got it out.

You mean in RL? Interesting, then.

 

Just we need to get use to it....

Here is a short but related video ;)

 

Well they don't seem to have super-glue grass.

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Yep, the narrow jet tires and sheer weight of the jets means grass is sure to bring it to a stop. Unless it's a special grass runway that's been designed to withstand the weight of aircraft, not the normal grass and softer dirt around a taxiway or runway.

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The props are meant to be able to take off and land on turf, and have corresponding relationships between tyre dimensions, aircraft weight and tyre pressure.

 

Jets typically have immense tyre pressures, and accordingly sink to the axle if you try to taxi them outside of prepared surfaces. You need jacks to get them out.

 

To give an idea, aircraft tyres can be akin to explosives going off when they burst, or if the rims come apart. It's a killer.

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Maybe not a MiG (really not even close) but might show the point:

 

1801406.jpg

 

Source: http://www.airliners.net/photo/FedEx---Federal/McDonnell-Douglas-MD-11%28F%29/1801406/

 

This majestic MD-11 took a turn a bit too wide. Turned out the MD-11 could also be used as plough.

 

 

BTT: While the MiG-21 is considerably lighter, the point, as some have mentioned already is still there: The wheel contact surfaces of jet aircraft are usually very small compared to the weight on them.

 

But also the ground itself plays a major factor itself: During or up to a week after heavy rainfall grass surfaces can be very soft, especially non-prepared ones. Also the grass length can play a major factor in wheel drag on grass.

 

During my flight training I managed to get myself stuck in grass in a light aircraft that was not heavier than 500kg (including fuel and myself). There was no chance to get that small bird unstuck with engine power.

Only after getting out and pulling it by hand could get it out of the whole it sank into.

 

 

In the end I would say that the grass friction in DCS comes close to a non-prepared surface (which the grass areas between the run- and taxiways are) with soft soil and maybe recent rainfalls.

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The problem is, in DCS ground is always silk-soft, whether it's -30 freezing winter or +30 dry summer, torrential rain or apocalyptic drought, planes armed to teeth or almost empty :D. I'm not loosing any sleep over it, 'cause it's just simplification of game engine, but the effect seems to be waaay overdone.

 

As clip on the previous page shows, the -21 could operate happily from unpaved strips with no issues. Same note applies to -15 (seen it during airshow), so I wonder how Belsimtek's one will handle when it's out :).


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It is a huge annoyance when you drop a wheel off the edge of a taxiway of course, but I don't think we should get away Scott-free if we can't taxi on the grey bit.

 

I don't have an issue with bogging down, we all know it happens, so just avoid sloppy taxiing. I'd consider modelling how soft and wet grass is according to meteorology for the past 5 days to be something we can live without. Save the processing power for more relevant factors IMHO.

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Maybe not a MiG (really not even close) but might show the point:

 

1801406.jpg

 

Source: http://www.airliners.net/photo/FedEx---Federal/McDonnell-Douglas-MD-11%28F%29/1801406/

Holy crap. I did not know about that. Well, consider me convinced.

 

Maybe it would be good if we could ask the ground crew to get the tracker... again!

"get the tracker" Are you austrian? :)

 

And then wait some time penalty. I play with respawns on so I have to hit respawn and swear a bit and do the startup sequence again.

That's actually a good idea! LN pls!

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It's funny, people keep arguing about how this is super intended, when

 

Just we need to get use to it....

Here is a short but related video ;)

 

 

this has been already posted.

 

I think all Russian cold war planes are designed to work with non-infrastructure, and take off/land on dirt and snow runways. I know for certain MiG-21 does this, because the Vietnamese hid them in hut villages, then used the local dirt "road" and rocket boosters to get in the air and shoot mans.

 

 

Grass in DCS is super buggy. You can drive over it fine, just don't ever allow the MiG to stop, because then not even 100kN of thrust will get you out.

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I don't know if any of you guys ever had the experience with a real fighter going into a ditch or a field but I can assure you that once you hit the grass with just one wheel the airplane will start to sink into the ground due to its weight and it's almost impossible to get it back out by it's own. I've seen a few fighters getting stuck (f.e a pilots cellphone fell down into the pedal area during taxing, he instantly tried to pick it back up and didn't watched where he was going which ended in the result of being stuck in the field right next to the shelter, now explain that to your CO!).

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I don't know if any of you guys ever had the experience with a real fighter going into a ditch or a field but I can assure you that once you hit the grass with just one wheel the airplane will start to sink into the ground due to its weight and it's almost impossible to get it back out by it's own. I've seen a few fighters getting stuck (f.e a pilots cellphone fell down into the pedal area during taxing, he instantly tried to pick it back up and didn't watched where he was going which ended in the result of being stuck in the field right next to the shelter, now explain that to your CO!).

 

Exactly my experience when we were towing with a tractor an old Mig-21-F13 and one wheel got onto grass - I was amazed how it started to sink into the ground and after a few minutes the whole wheel was completely under the surface. We pulled it out only after some excavation and it had to be pulled by a truck (the tractor couldn't do it).

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