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Well TBH this visibility thing is a huge can of worms really. If you adjust it to suit an average monitor (1920x1080 perhaps nowadays), then 4K folks get an unfair advantage because theirs will show everything even better. And if you do it vice versa, no-one but the 4K folks will see anything. So what the hell can you do? Seems unsolveable to me.

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I think that any need to have a 4k monitor should not be the case, but the need to have rudder peddles is understandable.

Exactly. I know that I bought a stick with twist because I don't have money for the rudder pedals, but that is understable that they give you better control.

 

That doesn't mean that twist give so bad control you can't even fight. And I can further adjust the game's options that let me fine-tune the rudder to my liking, so my twist is comfortable to me.

 

I should be able to run the game on any monitor and be capable of spoting targets on realistic distances. Done. Period. Why? Because I don't want to loose my eye sight. I have 21'inch monitor with HD resolution and can't see a thing over 1nm even with zoom, plus planes blend into the ground within spotting range. Thats not how it should be.

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You don't need a 4k monitor. Mine are 1920x1080 but lower res's may even help dot spotting.

 

If you really want to know what kind of aircraft dot visibility you can achieve use the attached mission file. When you spawn you have about 12 aircraft ahead of you at 1km distances. According to your graphics/monitor settings you will see more or less and can count off the dots to see your km visibility range. It uses the TF-51 so anyone can try it.

 

When you start have the throttle half open and when you actually spawn close the throttle. Take a screenshot for later examination. Keep your speed around 216kph and look.

 

On my normal view (top yellow instrument line just in view at the bottom of the screen) I can see 6 or 7 dots fading away, more if I really stare. On full zoom in I can see just about all of them although I have to look hard for the last of them that tend to group together in the distance.

 

Use the mission to adjust and test your settings.

 

I leave aside the argument about how far away you can see an aircraft but for reference I live about 2.5 miles/2.2 Nm/4km from the local municipal airport (Cessnas to a Harvard in single engine types). On a clear sunny day my old eyes can follow a single engine type at around 2000 ft passing near my house out to about 2 - 3 miles (4 - 6km) judging from the circuit and know distance to the field. If I'm seeing the sunny side it tends to merge into the blue sky earlier than if I am seeing the shadow side. Sometimes my eyes will follow them a little further out. Picking a distant one up from scratch requires knowing where to look! More distant 'Dots' in a blue sky are much harder for me although cloudy days are a little easier.

Contact_Spotting.miz

klem

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Where is everyone (online)

 

It wont be realistic even with 4k monitor, we see way badly vs real life even then :/


Edited by Haukka81

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1. Multiplayer needs to be fixed --at least 60 slots, no lag

2. Visibility really needs to be fixed. If it doesn't it is literally a no-go for most members of the (WW2) community where spotting is everything. Let me say that again : it shouldn't take a 40 inch 4K monitor or eagle eyes or whatever to be able to feel comfortable spotting an aircraft 1 mile from yours. People can argue about realism or other parameters as much as they want, but if the majority of players with their "average" monitor and PC feel that this seriously hinders their experience with the game, then it should be fixed (even if this means different visibility options in the settings)

3. Normandy with period units and definitely AI bombers have to come in.

4. New maps, new ground units and new theaters (or expansion of the existing ETO) should keep flowing. People keep coming if they have something new to expect. To release Normandy and then release the next WW2 map 3 years later (which would equal the time it took for Normandy to be delivered after its announcement in 2013--that is, assuming it will be 2016) is a recipe for a dead WW2 community. It would be as if BOS kept the Stalingrad map for 3 years--surely a deal breaker and certain abandonment by the community.

 

+1

 

What we have now, on the current map, feels like a demo of what could come. Occasionally I come back to DCS to enjoy flight and system modeling but for the most part DCS is on the shelf for me. Waiting for EDGE and DCS 2.0.

 

Thankfully there have been some improvements in the MP netcode recently, but I've only tested it on one server.

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Visibility is a huge problem for me online and I now understand the purpose of scaling. I can't spot a single enemy aircraft before they're already on my tail.

 

Me too .. unless labels are used it's just a waste of time for me (I prefer modified and unobtrusive .. E.g. a period).

 

CLOD's system works well for me without labels.

 

Occasionally I come back to DCS to enjoy flight and system modeling but for the most part DCS is on the shelf for me. Waiting for EDGE and DCS 2.0.

 

Yeah, I understand this too. Though my flying is probably 80% in DCS's favour. I just see it as practice time .. perfecting my tactical flying and airmanship (props only) until the WWII environment fleshes out more in the future.

There's quite a big community out there imo ... build it and they'll come sort of thing; just hope it will be in my life-time ;).


Edited by Teapot

"A true 'sandbox flight sim' requires hi-fidelity flyable non-combat utility/support aircraft."

Wishlist Terrains - Bigger maps

Wishlist Modules - A variety of utility aircraft to better reflect the support role. E.g. Flying the Hornet ... big yawn ... flying a Caribou on a beer run to Singapore? Count me in. Extracting a Recon Patrol from a hastily prepared landing strip at a random 6 figure grid reference? Now yer talking!

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Visibility is a huge problem for me online and I now understand the purpose of scaling. I can't spot a single enemy aircraft before they're already on my tail.

 

 

But how do they spot you?

 

Well, I can see this conversation isn't going anywhere. Have a read here and see what others say.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=139306

 

That thread poll has very little relevance as it was made. The name scaling is not very well understood either by those who want its effects or those that does't. I think it creates confusion for both sides. Also, people that have an interest and are frustrated by this problem are more likely to vote that people that don't give a damn about it. This is something every poll should try to avoid... to create false majority... or at least doubtful majority.... or majority out of frustration.


Edited by zaelu

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I personally think visibility is OK-ish. Sure it needs improvement, but it's not that terrible.

 

If you go out to fly a real plane and join the traffic pattern where 2 other aircraft are doing their landings as well, it's not that easy to spot them..and they are WHITE!

Imagine if they had proper camo!

I think it needs a very sharp eye to spot an small aircraft beyond 4nm. And to spot them you need to know where to look at, mostly by listening to the radio.

 

What i DO think needs change in DCS World, is the scaling of everything. I think it needs a slight zoom in to everything. I have a 24 inch monitor and the size of...stuff..seems smaller for the distance you look at. Something like 2 clicks on the slow zoom key seems to do it for me.

 

I think saying i won't play until a proper theater comes out for immersion and all, is kind of bull..

There are WW2 exclusive servers like the JG27 FlyingLegends that fix the visibility proplem, but i think only to make it easy for everyone to spot and not up to realistic standards. But temporarily, it fixes the problem. If everybody just join, instead of waiting, it would be fun for everybody who is really into WW2 aircraft. More people = more fun = not boring. Try to contribute to the community and not just wait for everything to be served for you ready.


Edited by Eros

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there are big differences in real life spotting of aircraft, and what we have in the sim, and how its working in the sim...in real life, you have a huge FOV in comparison to what we have in the sim. the sky is huge in real life, and has depth. it can be very hard to spot aircraft, which are even uncomfortably close to you.in real life, you look next to them, or look even "behind" or "in front" of them, altough you look at the correct direction, because your eyes are focusing the wrong distance...this makes aircraft spotting hard in real life. once you do spot them, its generally easy to maintain visual though.even at very far distances.

 

in dcs, we dont have an in-depth sky, we have a narrow fov, and last but not least, broken lod models. i think, especially with tools like oculus rift on the horizon, which features higher FOV, the sim should aim for realistic spotting distances, at close to human FOV levels.also, i am convinced, that a very subtle smartscaling would do wonders, and could give us a way more realistic spotting experience.subtle is key though, otherwise we would end up with an arcardish spotting system, which isnt challenging at all anymore, and neither realistic.

this coupled with improvements of the lighting system which is on its way with dcs2.0, and we should be good....well in terms of spotting aircraft at least.

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I think saying i won't play until a proper theater comes out for immersion and all, is kind of bull..

There are WW2 exclusive servers like the JG27 FlyingLegends that fix the visibility proplem, but i think only to make it easy for everyone to spot and not up to realistic standards. But temporarily, it fixes the problem. If everybody just join, instead of waiting, it would be fun for everybody who is really into WW2 aircraft. More people = more fun = not boring. Try to contribute to the community and not just wait for everything to be served for you ready.

 

Yeah .. I think this kind of opinion masquerading as advice is bull ...

People have different levels of what they'll accept when playing any sim ... so far I think the responses have been pretty reasonable w.r.t. what people have said regarding the choices they're making.

Obviously for you the existing servers are fine. For me there's a 400 + ping rate that makes it untenable most of the time ... what I'm saying is that your *bull* statement is thoughtless.

For others it might also be the loss of immersion because of a lack of WWII units etc.

Bottom line is the reasons are many and varied, but one thing is clear; people who respond to this thread obviously want DCS: WWII to become a reality sooner rather than later and your comment is not helpful. :mad:

"A true 'sandbox flight sim' requires hi-fidelity flyable non-combat utility/support aircraft."

Wishlist Terrains - Bigger maps

Wishlist Modules - A variety of utility aircraft to better reflect the support role. E.g. Flying the Hornet ... big yawn ... flying a Caribou on a beer run to Singapore? Count me in. Extracting a Recon Patrol from a hastily prepared landing strip at a random 6 figure grid reference? Now yer talking!

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Could this thread have gone any further OT??

 

 

Teapot, I do have to agree with your last (previous) post though :) except for the "sooner than later"... everything will come about, when it is ready... just got to have patience - else crap is released.

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... everything will come about, when it is ready... just got to have patience - else crap is released.

 

True.

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"A true 'sandbox flight sim' requires hi-fidelity flyable non-combat utility/support aircraft."

Wishlist Terrains - Bigger maps

Wishlist Modules - A variety of utility aircraft to better reflect the support role. E.g. Flying the Hornet ... big yawn ... flying a Caribou on a beer run to Singapore? Count me in. Extracting a Recon Patrol from a hastily prepared landing strip at a random 6 figure grid reference? Now yer talking!

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Yeah .. I think this kind of opinion masquerading as advice is bull ...

People have different levels of what they'll accept when playing any sim ... so far I think the responses have been pretty reasonable w.r.t. what people have said regarding the choices they're making.

Obviously for you the existing servers are fine. For me there's a 400 + ping rate that makes it untenable most of the time ... what I'm saying is that your *bull* statement is thoughtless.

For others it might also be the loss of immersion because of a lack of WWII units etc.

 

Ofcourse the existing servers are fine. Even at this point of development of WW2, the servers are doing a great job creating different scenarios and mission types. Yes the "bombers" are An AI or whatever, but it is still a big plane capable of bombing and going down when you shoot it. And to me ofcourse, it doesn't make a difference if i destroy with a bomb a visual model of a ww2 tank or a modern era tank existing right now in DCS. It's stil la tank and the best we can get right now. Isn't that the point?To create something that fit our needs with what we ve got and have fun? It's not like we play world of tanks and we see them in detail diving on them with 400 kph.

And the ping? Well, it's your ping. I never had any ping problems. Is it just me?

I didn't mean to offend anybody with my statement, i guess i'm just bitter :) And words as well as the differences of native language

make things sound different

 

Bottom line is the reasons are many and varied, but one thing is clear; people who respond to this thread obviously want DCS: WWII to become a reality sooner rather than later and your comment is not helpful. :mad:

 

Isn't it what we really want? To make DCS WWII a thing as fast as it can be since we enjoy it so much?

I want every WW2 plane on DCS and i want it now! lol

i don't get the point of that statement. :pilotfly:


Edited by Eros
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Isn't it what we really want? To make DCS WWII a thing as fast as it can be since we enjoy it so much?

I want every WW2 plane on DCS and i want it now! lol

i don't get the point of that statement. :pilotfly:

 

Alrighty lets call it pax; I over-reacted. I agree to chalk it down to misunderstanding and a lack of coffee on my part. :(

 

Fwiw the only servers where I get a decent ping is the Aef and they appear to do a mish-mash of all periods ... not really my thing.

"A true 'sandbox flight sim' requires hi-fidelity flyable non-combat utility/support aircraft."

Wishlist Terrains - Bigger maps

Wishlist Modules - A variety of utility aircraft to better reflect the support role. E.g. Flying the Hornet ... big yawn ... flying a Caribou on a beer run to Singapore? Count me in. Extracting a Recon Patrol from a hastily prepared landing strip at a random 6 figure grid reference? Now yer talking!

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I don't think it went off-topic really, the visibility issue is one reason why I am not playing online that much...

 

To completely understand why he made that post, you need to know he doesn't think there is an issue with spotting in this sim. That being said, I don't think there was any major OT.

 

Speaking of, I need to try that 9./JG27 modpack that helps overcome the issue before venturing again onto their server.

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P8Z68 | 2500k @ 4.5 | GTX 1080Ti | 2x8 GB @ 1600 | TM Hog (extended 7cm) & MFG Crosswind (S/N 007) | TIR v5

WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature

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........................

 

Speaking of, I need to try that 9./JG27 modpack that helps overcome the issue before venturing again onto their server.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2272536&postcount=130

klem

56 RAF 'Firebirds'

ASUS ROG Strix Z390-F mobo, i7 8086A @ 5.0 GHz with Corsair H115i watercooling, Gigabyte 2080Ti GAMING OC 11Gb GPU , 32Gb DDR4 RAM, 500Gb and 256Gb SSD SATA III 6Gb/s + 2TB , Pimax 8k Plus VR, TM Warthog Throttle, TM F18 Grip on Virpil WarBRD base, Windows 10 Home 64bit

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^^nope, thats an old link. we have uploaded it directly onto our server, and you find it on our website

 

oops

klem

56 RAF 'Firebirds'

ASUS ROG Strix Z390-F mobo, i7 8086A @ 5.0 GHz with Corsair H115i watercooling, Gigabyte 2080Ti GAMING OC 11Gb GPU , 32Gb DDR4 RAM, 500Gb and 256Gb SSD SATA III 6Gb/s + 2TB , Pimax 8k Plus VR, TM Warthog Throttle, TM F18 Grip on Virpil WarBRD base, Windows 10 Home 64bit

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Speaking of, I need to try that 9./JG27 modpack that helps overcome the issue before venturing again onto their server.

 

It doesn't make much difference. It might help a bit for spotting distant contacts, but close range stuff still disappears in the ground clutter as if by magic.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Spotting in DCS is hard for sure, you've really got to train your eyes. Especially if you are fighting over a city, it's easy to lose them like that. However I think it's fine, I for sure wouldn't like an IL-2 spin off of aircraft increasing in size at distance and shrinking when the distance is closed.

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Spotting in DCS is hard for sure, you've really got to train your eyes. Especially if you are fighting over a city, it's easy to lose them like that. However I think it's fine, I for sure wouldn't like an IL-2 spin off of aircraft increasing in size at distance and shrinking when the distance is closed.

I would though. At least my eyes wouldn't hurt.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA

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