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question about how to use Huey trim


bin801
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I want to know how do you use trim in Huey, because I am still struggling to trim properly and smoothly. Trying to follow real life way, every time, I try to keep the stick position indicator off.

 

I watched those tuitorial videos but I believe anyone must has more thumb triks besides those mentioned in tuitorials. Or to say, describe with more hand move detail and hand feeling.

 

question are:

 

when will you set trim, which moment?

when will you reset, which moment?

Is there any hand or feet movment advise you conclude by yourself about the trim?

Is there any skill or thumb trik for the reset trim moment? because everytime, when I reset trim, the head will sink suddenly, even I get ready to pull circle stick. The only thing I can imagine to prevent sink is pull circle stick inadvance, before pressing reset button. I know that must be inproper way.

so could you share your experience here?

Appreicate!

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I use the trim only when I have the Huey stable and likely to remain stable for some time.

 

All it really does is centre the stick - and tail rotor pitch if you select that option before you fly. Once you trim you need to let go of the stick and let it centre, or the offset will be read as a control input.

 

How and when to use it is up to you.

 

Resetting is something I do when I have landed, so that the controls are predictable on rising into the air again.

 

Basically though, just keep flying and trying, and you'll find your own techniques.

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Ive been told that they never turned the trim switch on in the real thing, but that could have easily been an IP (Instructor Pilot) blowing smoke up my ass.

 

I personally never use trim anyway; after I removed that big fat spring from my warthog, it tends to like to stay where I put it. :joystick:

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I find trim very useful in the Huey, to the point where I picked up a Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 stick on ebay for use with the Huey and Mi-8. Trim in a helicopter works a bit differently than fixed wing because fixed and rotary wing do different things.

 

When you trim in the Huey using FFB (as well as real life), the stick is set to a specific position that represents where the rotor disc is pointing. Any cyclic movement from this point provides resistance similar to what you would expect from a conventional joystick. When you press the trim button, all resistance is removed allowing for a free-floating stick. Once you release the trim button, the stick "center" defaults to the new position, and all centering resistance is based on that new position.

 

I won't describe Huey trim on conventional joysticks; it totally depends on how you have your trim set up, and there are plenty of articles and videos available that would do a better job of explaining.

 

Trim reset doesn't actually exist in helicopters; it's a way to cope with the limitations of a conventional joystick and the DCS trimmer system. The only time you need to use it is if your trim on a conventional joystick gets so out of whack with your settings that it's just easier to "start over", but resetting trim actually moves the rotor to the physical center. This may cause serious pitching in the helicopter you're flying.

 

For rudder trim, that's up to you; there is an option to enable it, and doing so will offset your rudder when you release the trim button. It can be useful in cruising and also in the Mi-8 (to counter when the autopilot autotrims your pedals), but it can mess you up if you're not careful. It's a personal preference, though I prefer to turn it off with the Huey.

 

Hope this helps.

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Got a PM last night asking about trim so I made a trk and if you watch ingame you can see my personal use of trim, obviously everyone is different but I find trimming often and little gives maximum control.

 

BTW I forgot to save the first trk so my flying reflects the rush I was in doing a 2nd one;)

Trim example.trk

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here are my settings

 

curve : X --> no curve default linear

curve : Y --> no curve default linear

curve Rudder --> 15 %

curve throttle --> personnal corrected for hover and landing facilities : 0 / 28 / 44 / 55 /64 /73 / 80 /85 / 88 / 92 / 100

 

Force Feedback :

Swap axis : Yes ( MS FFB2 )

Force 50

Schake :15

 

 

General settings :

Rudder Trim : Yes ( because no rudder pedals )

Center Trim : NO ( if you have FFB )

 

give a try like that.


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curve : X --> no curve default linear

curve : Y --> no curve default linear

curve Rudder --> 15 %

curve throttle --> personnal corrected for hover and landing facilities : 0 / 28 / 44 / 55 /64 /73 / 80 /85 / 88 / 92 / 100

 

Force Feedback :

Swap axis : Yes ( MS FFB2 )

Force 50

Schake :15

 

 

General settings :

Rudder Trim : Yes ( because no rudder pedals )

Center Trim : NO ( if you have FFB )

 

give a try like that.

Thanks

I will try.

What is FFB?

 

curve throttle --> personnal corrected for hover and landing facilities : 0 / 28 / 44 / 55 /64 /73 / 80 /85 / 88 / 92 / 100"

What are Hover and landing facilities you talk about?

To where should I set those number ? and how?

 

Appreciate


Edited by bin801
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In game options select the trim you want to tweak and you should see a radio button for axis tune.

That will open a new window where you can invert, make slider or add user curve.

 

GL:)

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One of the things I do that I don't see mentioned here, is reducing the saturation of my cyclic axis, rather than give them a curve. I've never liked the way curves interact with helicopter cyclics.

 

My cyclic is set to 60% saturation, without any curve. This allows for linear fine adjustment of the cyclic at all times, with the caveat that if i want to go from full left cyclic to full right cyclic (or front to back), I will have to trim to accomplish it.

 

Honestly, I never end up swinging the cyclic about like that anyway, so it ends up working pretty well, and really helped a lot with being able to hover.

Practice makes perfect.

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One of the things I do that I don't see mentioned here, is reducing the saturation of my cyclic axis, rather than give them a curve. I've never liked the way curves interact with helicopter cyclics.

 

My cyclic is set to 60% saturation, without any curve. This allows for linear fine adjustment of the cyclic at all times, with the caveat that if i want to go from full left cyclic to full right cyclic (or front to back), I will have to trim to accomplish it.

 

Honestly, I never end up swinging the cyclic about like that anyway, so it ends up working pretty well, and really helped a lot with being able to hover.

 

Nice tip, i reduce my saturation to 80, a little more trimming is not a big deal. I now control the Slick easier (they called Huey Gunship Slick in Vietnam war).

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One of the things I do that I don't see mentioned here, is reducing the saturation of my cyclic axis, rather than give them a curve. I've never liked the way curves interact with helicopter cyclics.

 

My cyclic is set to 60% saturation, without any curve. This allows for linear fine adjustment of the cyclic at all times, with the caveat that if i want to go from full left cyclic to full right cyclic (or front to back), I will have to trim to accomplish it.

 

Honestly, I never end up swinging the cyclic about like that anyway, so it ends up working pretty well, and really helped a lot with being able to hover.

 

 

I've avoided Sat curves cuz I didn't want to give up cyclic range. Not a big trim guy so your tip never occurred to me.

Tried it. Love it!!

Thanks.

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  • 1 month later...
Nice tip, i reduce my saturation to 80, a little more trimming is not a big deal. I now control the Slick easier (they called Huey Gunship Slick in Vietnam war).

 

Fun fact:

"Gunship UH-1s were commonly referred to as "Frogs" or "Hogs" if they carried rockets, and "Cobras" or simply "Guns" if they had guns. [/url]UH-1s tasked and configured for troop transport were often called "Slicks" due to an absence of weapons pods. Slicks did have door gunners, but were generally employed in the troop transport and medevac roles." :smilewink:

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As an old Huey Crewchief i can say there is no "trim" in a Huey. What you have is "Force Trim" and it was only used when in long boring flat and level flights. It provides some stabilization to the cyclic stick keeping the pilot from wearing out his wrist. Unlike a fixed wing the cyclic is not held steady in one position. Pilots would either make small continuous circles or boxes with the cyclic while in flight. Thus keeping the rotor disc tilted in the direction of flight. However, in straight and level flight the cyclic isn't moved in that manner as much, since your speed and alt. do not change constantly. So engaging the "force trim" would help keep the stick in position. Almost feels like a car without power steering. You would not fly an approach with it on nor would you hover, do sling loads, shoot rockets or any other maneuvering. It would be much to difficult to hold the aircraft steady.

 

In the 80's and 90's I flew on H models from the late 60's era and Ah-1 Cobras, it was the same for both aircraft type.


Edited by mason1911
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That's interesting info, mason1911. I have always had an interest in the Huey and older Vietnam-era Cobras. I know some crew chiefs were able to occasionally get some stick time in while on the job. If you managed to do so, how does this UH-1 sim feel compared to your experience? Is it fairly close?

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Thanks dabomb,

 

I got some stick time as a chief but more often as a TI on test flights.

I was surprised to see it closer than I would have first thought. The torque factor is modeled very well and it hovers quite nicely. It does take some practice to get used to her but then so does the real thing. Normally you would cruise around 90 knots so she isn't the quickest with VNE at 124 knots. Depending on how the blades are tracked out, at around 120 knots she'll be bouncing bad enough you won't be able to read the gauges. So that part is a little off but all in all its a nice SIM, imo.

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Real life RCAF helo pilot here. I have flown the 206 and the 412 (updated 4 blade version of the Huey)

 

Mason is correct in all respects. In hovering and other regimes of flight that require constant adjustment with the cyclic, the force trim is more of a PITA then it is worth. In training we weren't allowed to turn it off - it made for some very sore thumbs from holding the button down constantly. In cruising flight it is ok, as it holds the cyclic in position for you.

 

In terms of realism, I don't know how differently the 412 flies from the 212 (Huey) as I haven't flown the 212, but it feels quite similar to the 412. All of the aerodynamic forces are there, including translational lift and flapback, which greatly adds realism. I do find VRS to be a bit over modelled, however; I've never gotten into it with a real aircraft but have crashed my DCS Huey multiple times due to VRS. It may be the lack of "seat of the pants" feel, peripheral vision and depth perception that causes me to not notice the danger signs before it happens, or maybe the Huey 2 blade rotor is more susceptible - I suspect it is more a lack of feel and visual cues, however.

 

For control setup, I simply use an Extreme 3D pro with the spring removed, and I turn off force trim. It gives me the most realistic feel.

 

I also have a Force 3D pro (force feedback), and tried using the force trim. I'm not sure if it is DCS or my stick, which is old and beat up, but I did not find the force trim felt much like the real thing. It was kind of there, but not really. The main problem was the gears in the stick made it very hard to be precise, as they create a sticky feel.

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I have the spring removed from my HOTAS Warthog so often fly without trimming as there is very little force to fight against. I do find though that pre-setting takeoff trim is useful - back a bit, left a bit, a bit more if you're heavy.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I have the spring removed from my HOTAS Warthog so often fly without trimming as there is very little force to fight against. I do find though that pre-setting takeoff trim is useful - back a bit, left a bit, a bit more if you're heavy.

That's how I do it too, I trim before take off and then adjust when I'm a few feet above the ground for a stable hover then don't touch the trim at all.

I also have removed the spring in my warthog more than a year ago and never looked back.

It really helps with helos, providing an illusion of force feedback.

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