MiG 21 vs modern fighters

[Darkwolf]

Regarding CM, unless you fly on 104th server, you better keep them if you fly below 5000m. It's not perfect but saved my life more than once against Strelas and stingers.

 

Also, yesterday I did a Pikachu lightning attack against a taxiing A10C dropping all my flares at him :D

[Nerd1000]

why R60M?

 

The R60M is the most agile missile available to the MiG and can lock on to targets from the side, above and below rather than just from behind. Downside is the tiny warhead, which rarely scores a 1-hit kill. This isn't as bad as it sounds: Planes that have taken a R60 are rarely in a state conducive to dogfighting, so you can just finish the job with the cannon.

 

Edit: The R-60 is also small and light, which gives you better range and agility than carrying an equal number of bigger missiles.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Nerd1000

[Bidartarra]

Need to try the R60m.

Only killed helos and A10s with them, need to try them on fighters.

[Hadwell]

R60 vs R13 is a tough choice :

 

R60 is manoeuvrable but way more prone to go against flare, and carrying 4 will just kill your manoeuvrability.

 

R13 has a very good acquisition cone, manoeuver ok BUT it manoeuver only after a couple of seconds, so a close target is out of question.

 

When i merge, i just drop everything and go gun. The Mig-21 is very manoeuvrable if you drop everything and go manual ARU.

 

Just a heads up... the R-13M1 is roughly an aim-9J, R3R/R3S is roughly an aim-9B

 

sooo really the R-13M1 is the best missile the bis can carry for 4km+ ranges.

 

the R-60M is better at ranges less than 4km.

 

so it's not what one to choose, but what range you're expecting to run into the enemy at.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Hadwell

[Zomba]

I've scored plenty of single R-60m kills. I don't find the warhead as underpowered as it's reputation suggests, but that's just in my own experience.

[Nerd1000]

I've scored plenty of single R-60m kills. I don't find the warhead as underpowered as it's reputation suggests, but that's just in my own experience.

 

Su-25s and A-10s are tough bastards and often survive the first hit (though they will typically lose an engine). I usually fire R3Rs at them because in my experience IR missiles won't lock until you are almost at minimum range.

 

Helicopters are even worse. The only time I ever tried to use an R-60M on a Ka-50 I was practically on top of him before I got tone.

[Bidartarra]

Depends on how far you are and where you approach from

Got a Ka50 with R13m1 approaching from behind. A10s are tough though.

[Zomba]

Double kill

 

Double kill online.

 

Egressing from Maykop to cross the Caucasus to go patrol, but detected two that had just come over to the north from Kutaisi to catch fighters coming out of the Maykop area. I boxed around to their south to come in from the direction of their home plate. Their AWACs had very patchy coverage in that area as long as I stayed low, but mine had decent illumination of them. Cover was very minimal and I was lucky they didn't conduct any radar search to the south.

 

Taken with a cockpit camera from track file as Shadowplay played up during the engagement, but suffice to say my head was on a swivel the entire time. Tacview run at 4x speed at end.

 

Edited August 21, 2015 by Zomba

[Hadwell]

I haven't posted in a while...

 

[FeistyLemur]

I made a mission with 2 F-15c versus 2 mig21, player and wingman. Now that I'm finally getting a bit more comfortable with the plane I thought it would be interesting to try.

 

Well it was a turkey shoot. The bad news is I was the turkey.

[Dappman]

This is why we need some kind of online ranking system. It doesn't mean much when you take down an F15 in the Mig21 if the guy doesn't even know how to us radar.

 

I've taken down F15's head on with radar guided missiles in the mig. Nothing special on my part I just flew straight at them yolo locked the whole time expecting to get shot down and instead got a kill.

[Hadwell]

This is why we need some kind of online ranking system. It doesn't mean much when you take down an F15 in the Mig21 if the guy doesn't even know how to us radar.

 

I've taken down F15's head on with radar guided missiles in the mig. Nothing special on my part I just flew straight at them yolo locked the whole time expecting to get shot down and instead got a kill.

 

think of it as not allowing the f-15s to get complacent. and if someone doesn't know how to use their radar, it's giving them an excuse to learn how.

 

it might not mean what you think, but it still means something. there's always someone better than you, but then there's always someone worse too.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Hadwell

[Chann3l]

The AI aren't very good. It's pretty easy to beat an "expert" AI F-15 guns only.

 

Anyway, I'm back from a long hiatus, if anyone wants to get some -21 action in online let me know.

 

 

Time zone could be an issue as I'm west coast and usually on after 10 or 11 pm, but I'll happily fly with you. I'll be Tsing the mig 21 to multiplayer for the first time later tonight. Should be interesting.

[Chann3l]

Does anyone attempt to use radar guided missiles or is it better to stick with a full IR loadout and strictly use ambush tactics and only use the radar in combination with the early warning system to get a picture of where the enemy is? I flew in the 159th last night but the server was sparsely populated so I didn't have a chance to test any tactics as Noone was at near any of the way points or even the surrounding areas (I flew around for 2 hours with one landing to refuel)

[SilentGun]

I always use radar guided (at least 2). It's just better to use your eyes to find targets so you don't spook them.

[Chann3l]

I always use radar guided (at least 2). It's just better to use your eyes to find targets so you don't spook them.

 

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'm just a huge fan of the mig21 and I'd like to be able to hold my own against more modern jets as I don't plan on straying too far from such a wonderfully detailed simulation.

[Nerd1000]

Does anyone attempt to use radar guided missiles or is it better to stick with a full IR loadout and strictly use ambush tactics and only use the radar in combination with the early warning system to get a picture of where the enemy is? I flew in the 159th last night but the server was sparsely populated so I didn't have a chance to test any tactics as Noone was at near any of the way points or even the surrounding areas (I flew around for 2 hours with one landing to refuel)

 

The R3R radar guided missiles are invaluable for head-on engagements because the MiG-21 doesn't have any all-aspect heatseekers. They're also very useful for destroying targets with weak heat signatures such as A-10s and helicopters. I always carry two, usually backed up by a pair of R60Ms.

 

If you've got AWACS or GCI assistance, keep the radar in standby until you are at an appropriate detection range- probably 15km (max lock range) for tail chase and 30km (max range) for head on. On the other hand, if you're looking for targets by yourself you will need the radar to be on whenever you are in the target area. Keep in mind that it can only see 1.5 degrees downwards, 28 degrees upwards and 30 degrees on either side.

[grunf]

Keep in mind that it can only see 1.5 degrees downwards, 28 degrees upwards and 30 degrees on either side.

Isn't it 17 degrees upwards?

[Chann3l]

The R3R radar guided missiles are invaluable for head-on engagements because the MiG-21 doesn't have any all-aspect heatseekers. They're also very useful for destroying targets with weak heat signatures such as A-10s and helicopters. I always carry two, usually backed up by a pair of R60Ms.

 

If you've got AWACS or GCI assistance, keep the radar in standby until you are at an appropriate detection range- probably 15km (max lock range) for tail chase and 30km (max range) for head on. On the other hand, if you're looking for targets by yourself you will need the radar to be on whenever you are in the target area. Keep in mind that it can only see 1.5 degrees downwards, 28 degrees upwards and 30 degrees on either side.

 

Thanks for the advice. Since the AWACS channel is often not configured on a lot of online missions it's been a struggle finding targets lol. Everytime I get a hit on the rwr I get my hopes up and it turns out to be a Sam.

[Nerd1000]

Isn't it 17 degrees upwards?

 

You're right, I mixed up the search pattern with the gimbal limits.

[Darkwolf]

Everytime I get a hit on the rwr I get my hopes up and it turns out to be a Sam.

 

 

Found myself circling above a FARP, thinking I was merged with a F15 :P

We were flying in the middle of nowhere and were not expecting sam there :D Hopefully that was a friendly farp and we did catch an F15 - because we were in panic mode we noticed a far away contrail :D

[Chann3l]

Found myself circling above a FARP, thinking I was merged with a F15 :P

We were flying in the middle of nowhere and were not expecting sam there :D Hopefully that was a friendly farp and we did catch an F15 - because we were in panic mode we noticed a far away contrail :D

 

Any tips on avoiding being hit after be locked by a Sam? Or are you pretty well screwed? Chaff and Flares are only so effective and I figure from a ground target it's a lot harder to escape.

[Nerd1000]

Any tips on avoiding being hit after be locked by a Sam? Or are you pretty well screwed? Chaff and Flares are only so effective and I figure from a ground target it's a lot harder to escape.

 

Know your enemy. It helps a lot to be aware of the threats in your area, so that you know what the radar locking you is likely to be.

 

Here's some advice on common radar threats:

 

SPAAG- Self Propelled AA guns usually have an effective range of around 4km against a non maneuvering target. Bullets can be avoided by jinking at longer distances.

 

Short range SAM- Short range SAM systems like the SA-15 Tor are primarily a threat to low flying aircraft- if you fly high and fast (above 8000m) the missile won't be able to reach you. Best defense is to stay out of range, which is 15 km for a Tor firing against an approaching target.

 

Medium range SAM- These missiles (e.g. SA-3, SA-6, SA-11, HAWK) have a range of 30-40km. If you turn and run after getting locked you will almost always survive. Older designs like the SA-3 can be dodged, but generally its preferable to get out of range.

 

Strategic SAMs- The Patriot and SA-10 are in this category. These are nasty pieces of work and can hit you 100km away. They are almost always positioned near vital targets like airbases, so just stay away.

 

 

TL;DR learn where the enemy SAMs are and keep away from them if possible. If you get locked, turn around and leg it rather than waiting to see if you can dodge the imminent missile launch. Then call for SEAD.

[Chann3l]

Know your enemy. It helps a lot to be aware of the threats in your area, so that you know what the radar locking you is likely to be.

 

Here's some advice on common radar threats:

 

SPAAG- Self Propelled AA guns usually have an effective range of around 4km against a non maneuvering target. Bullets can be avoided by jinking at longer distances.

 

Short range SAM- Short range SAM systems like the SA-15 Tor are primarily a threat to low flying aircraft- if you fly high and fast (above 8000m) the missile won't be able to reach you. Best defense is to stay out of range, which is 15 km for a Tor firing against an approaching target.

 

Medium range SAM- These missiles (e.g. SA-3, SA-6, SA-11, HAWK) have a range of 30-40km. If you turn and run after getting locked you will almost always survive. Older designs like the SA-3 can be dodged, but generally its preferable to get out of range.

 

Strategic SAMs- The Patriot and SA-10 are in this category. These are nasty pieces of work and can hit you 100km away. They are almost always positioned near vital targets like airbases, so just stay away.

 

 

TL;DR learn where the enemy SAMs are and keep away from them if possible. If you get locked, turn around and leg it rather than waiting to see if you can dodge the imminent missile launch. Then call for SEAD.

 

 

 

That's some really good to know stuff, thanks a lot. I can never tell where it's coming from so I just dodge and weave and get hit everytime. I'll try a split s and go back as fast as I can and see if I have better luck.

[Chann3l]

Was so close to getting my first f15 kill on the 159th tonight. Followed the heading towards two f15s thanks to AWACS. Got behind both of them and got a lock. Followed for several km until I got close enough to fire. Chaff ate my R-3Rs and then the second one got behind me and took me out with the Canon. Close though and exciting and fun regardless.