SU25 LASER GUIDE PROBLEM

[whitehot]

I would say it's a bug. It wasn't like this before, pressing "TDC UP" would move the designator up.

Now, all the times the designator seems to behave erratically, and I wouldn't say it's about stabilization and so on, I tested it while flying perfectly level on flat terrains and basically the designator never moves in the direction you want it to move, after the laser rangefinder is turned on.

 

Since I normally (but I think almost everybody does it like me) correct the aimpoint almost constantly even after launching the missile, it means that it's almost impossible to hit anything.

 

As the previous poster said, maneuvering the AC seems to correct the problem, at least in part, yet it isn't a very feasible solution having to rock your plane all around while you try to keep the pipper on the target.

[kontiuka]

As the previous poster said, maneuvering the AC seems to correct the problem, at least in part, yet it isn't a very feasible solution having to rock your plane all around while you try to keep the pipper on the target.

Agreed, it isn't ideal. What I try to do though is get the pipper right on target before launch using this method and then not have to adjust it after. Usually means getting a little closer than you'd want to before launch but I get a decent hit percentage (> 50%). Takes some practice.

[pepin1234]

I remember very well this bug was there when the Su-25 was launched as a single module together with the A-10A. Now we have this bug back again

[Ultra]

Is this confirmed or what? It's very annoying. The cursor stabilizes until you try to move it, then it swings with the plane until you stop trying to move it. :(

 

It's also happening with the A-10A.

[pepin1234]

Please ED can make a Hotfix to fix this annoying bug. I just fly a mission and that happen every time. The reticle have an uncertain movement. As consequence I try and try to set the reticle on the target while inbound and the Su-25 is always killed by A-A because we get too close trying to get a good reticle position.

[Domcho]

Yes, please fix it, it's impossible to hit anything with laser guided missiles at the moment.

[Abburo]

I am experienng these issues too... and SU25A is by far my favourite plane (don't ask why)

[russiandivxclub]

I was driving myself and other people on steam crazy with this targeting problem. Well at list it's not just me. Now, when it'll be fixed ? Any news from devs ?

 

[Ultra]

Yes, I also bump this thread. It would be nice if the devs would officially re-recognized the problem, so we could think it's being worked on.

[titanium]

Reading through the Russian forums, I was able to find a post by Chizh that confirms that this behavior is correct. It is NOT a bug.

 

See post:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2427286&postcount=148

 

Translated:

 

"The game is all well, has stabilized, but too strong, that is, in the game the reticle is held firmly on the ground, while in real life - floats and requires adjustment. When adjusting the aiming mark in the game stabilization turned off as a result of the brand shifted under the influence two factors, the angular displacement of the aircraft and the angular movement of the joystick. If the angular velocity of the aircraft is more than the rate of movement of joystick, there is a feeling that the brand does not move to where it directs the player. In order not to have such neponyatok airplane at the time of adjustment of the brand must fly exactly on target."

 

So it seems that the aim mark is not stablized when moving the pipper.

 

To effectively use laser guided missiles;

- First stabilize the pipper near the target.

- Dive toward the target so that the target is near your bore-sight

- Fire missile when in range

- Make fine corrections to the pipper to get it on target while missile is in flight

- Once you are confident that the pipper is exactly on target you can pull up or break before missile impact.

the laser will continue pointing at target so long as you are within gimbal limits of laser.

 

You just have to make sure the target is stable with in your sight wile making adjustments of the pipper.

 

It is a shame that we did not get this information earlier from the devs.

[pepin1234]

Nice... Thank you. This confirm all I guess.

[Dr_Arrow]

Thanks for the info titanium, I read that also RL pilots had difficulties aiming/stabilizing with KLEN laser designator. Citation from the book of A. Mladenov (Su-25 Frogfoot units in combat):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During guided missile launches using self-lasing, the hit accuracy came in for criticism because of laser-beam stability problems that afflicted the manually controlled laser designator/rangefinder equipment in the Su-25.

 

External lasing significantly improved aiming conditions for guided missiles, as Su-25 pilots were now free to commence defensive maneuvering immediately after launching their weapons. Consequently, in 1987, a self-propelled laser-designation vehicle codenamed BOMAN was introduced into service by 378th OShAP. A makeshift targeting system,

it was based on the body of a BTR-80 APC, equipped with a Klyon-PS system scavenged from an Su-25 that had been damaged beyond repair.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thus we need the ability of external lasing for our Su-25s, it could be a nice addition in DCSW2.

[pepin1234]

 

External lasing significantly improved aiming conditions for guided missiles, as Su-25 pilots were now free to commence defensive maneuvering immediately after launching their weapons. Consequently, in 1987, a self-propelled laser-designation vehicle codenamed BOMAN was introduced into service by 378th OShAP. A makeshift targeting system,

it was based on the body of a BTR-80 APC, equipped with a Klyon-PS system scavenged from an Su-25 that had been damaged beyond repair.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thus we need the ability of external lasing for our Su-25s, it could be a nice addition in DCSW2.

 

Yes the Su-25 was supported by a ground vehicle laser designator. In this video min 3:50 they talk about this Russian JTAC vehicle. This vehicle was used in Afghanistan.

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by pepin1234

[russiandivxclub]

Any have any information on status of the "Targeting problem" ? Anything ?

 

[pepin1234]

Any have any information on status of the "Targeting problem" ? Anything ?

 

 

read the post above, Titanium post an important info about.

 

It is a new challenge use the laser guided missile. Anyway I use to punch the armors with this hard procedure. Just do the targeting with enough range before launch.

 

My advice, do ground stabilized laser the closer you can from the target, do the best as you can aligned flight respect the target, do some correction after launch. if you get closer ground stabilized from the target, then you get it easier. Work for me.

 

PD: I guess ED don't gone give us all tools now with the actual stage of the Su-25A. This bird should become a full simulated module to get some another external support as laser designator AFAC or JTAC. is marketing...

Edited September 11, 2015 by pepin1234

[number3]

russiandivxclub has shown this problem perfectly. There are cases where the target designator won't move in a horizontal direction at all.

 

I haven't tried adjusting the target designator after the missile has been released. But if the symptons are the same, I can't imagine how adjusting after the missile is release will work if the movement of the TD is in erratic ways

 

:mad:

[Frostie]

The missile will only hit on the pipper when the pipper is dead centre of the display.

 

If you move your nose up or down so the stabilised pipper slides up or down the display it will give you a false reading. The display has some bespoke effect on the pipper, dead centre is the only truth. So always set your target at dead centre.

[LFCChameleon_Silk]

still occuring in 2.0 alpha

 

would love to be able to use the Su-25 again but without a good way to remove armor (S-25L) its basically a useless ground attack plane currently.

 

EDIT: oh so its working as intended........ guess I better go train with the new styled crap pointer, just give me a laser pointer to shine by hand would yas.

Edited December 21, 2015 by =LFC=Chameleon_Silk

[pepin1234]

Take in mind the laser pointer have not stabilizer at the moment you move the pipper when you fix it on the ground. If you do a good dive knowing previously which target you gone attack, then work perfect. First you do a pass with transversal direction, just to choose the units. After the first dive you gone have a better idea where to direct the attack. Try to stabilize laser closer to the unit to attack, then the correction is much better because the closer distance to correct.

Edited December 22, 2015 by pepin1234

[number3]

I think what most people are trying to say (myself included) is that after ground stabilizing and entering a dive (not a shallow dive) when you press the key to move the pipper to the left, right, up or down the pipper moves diagonally or doesn't move at all (in the case of moving down).

 

So making finer adjustments as you wait for your missile to hit the target, sometimes means you move the pipper out of position. And without consistent movement it's hard to get it back into position in time.

 

I've tried this out and I can confirm it's still a problem in 2.0.

 

One of the testers confirmed it's a bug (http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2356979&postcount=16).

[Ultra]

He said it was reported as a bug, but I thought that later it was determined that this is actually the correct behavior. I'm not sure anymore.

[pepin1234]

I understand what you said. Look impossible make a big correction when the laser is ground stabilised. Sometime is like the pointer get immobilized when we try a big correction, allowing only small corrections. If we try to correct the laser pointer at the same time we pitching or banking, then we get a uncontrolled pointer that fallow the pitching of the aircraft. The laser stabiliser get unenganged. The Su-25A don't have a second stabiliser.

Edited December 21, 2015 by pepin1234

[LeVince]

It's not a bug, it was discussed many times, the laser can't lock a precise point itsef it's just a ground "Stabilisation" and not a lock.

 

To have a lock that don't move you need a TV to Track" an area, the laser is sychronised with the TV this is the system in the Su-25T, Ka-50 etc...

 

To understand the ground stabilistation, imagine you are in a car and try to aim something with a laser pointer. when the car move, turn etc... you have to correct with your hand the more the car moves, the more it's difficult.

 

By the way modern Su-25 have TV and HUD , and The guided missiles launched by the Su-25A were usualy guided from ground

 

My technique is to fly @ 400kmh + 1 flap + trimmed approach and the secret +++DON'T MOVE THE F****** PIPER++++

[lal_fox]

To Levince

 

Your example is not right. The SU25A laser is gyro-stabilized and remain fixed in the landscape after the lock but if the movement of the nose of the aircraft beyond the limit of this stabilization, the laser follows the movement.

The reaction of the laser in our version of the game is too large. It is indeed a bug, as has been reported to dev.

 

but if nose is moveing more left in respect to locked point on ground, the piper will appear to move left also in respect to locked point on ground

[marcwoolery]

Related, how can you change the speed of the targeting retical movement ?? Make the action smoother, and more even. Mine seems to accelerate and jump past the point I am searching for. Really frustrating. I am using keyboard and JOY STICK HAT to check if one is any better, they move the same... thanks !