TRACK IR IS Outdated

[FubarBundy]

Blimey... was just being flippant about what I always thought was prolly a myth anyway. The point stands tho... TIR is does the job plenty well enough for my needs at present. (got to admit its quite expensive for a pencil tho)

[Mustang]

Heh i still use a TrackIR 3 that i got nearly 10 years ago with an old track clip, never let me down once :)

[Flanker52]

I've found Track IR to be a pain in the ass at times. It really has a mind of its own.

 

Right now it's working pretty well but every now and then it acts up.

 

Plus I can't use it during the day due to the light I get in my apartment.

 

I don't want to bash the product because it seems to work for a lot of people but it does seem rather primitive.

[Revvin]

TrackIR was a revelation when it arrived on the scene but it hasn't really evolved past the TrackIR 3 I own. It's a great device but needs correct positioning and I never found the sweet spot in my Obutto cockpit. When I look down to instruments it tends to lose itself and I don't like having to wear a cap or a fragile LED array.

 

Recently I started using EDTracker which doesn't require a camera and instead uses a gyro and accelerometer to give an output like a 3 axis joystick. The device is tiny and easily secured to the headband of my headphones. Its an open source project and you can download the circuit diagram and part numbers and built it yourself around £10 or buy one from the developers web-site for £27 which is far cheaper than TrackIR. Any game that allows an axis to control head movement will work directly with the EDTracker and apparently the latest version of Opentrack supports it for games like DCS World that only allow TrackIR or mouse control. I wrote a small article on it and listed the games I tried here: http://www.ch-hangar.com/edtracker/

 

For games that support head control via an axis I find EDTracker as good as TrackIR though it does not have 6DOF but I don't mind that as I no longer need to wear a hat or have a fragile LED array on my headphones. The USB lead to the EDTracker is fastened to the USB lead of my headphones so I don't have to fire up any software I just load the game and go. I wish Eagle Dynamics would open up head movement to be mapped to an axis and break the monopoly TrackIR has here.

[Alicatt]

Been using Track IR since it came out, great device, I'm now using the Track IR 5/pro clip but it still works with the original baseball cap I got with v1

 

[Boberro]

What camera you have? I have Sony PS3 Eye and I have above 60FPS depending of the settings I choose. I choose 112FPS for example and it stays there no matter what. Yes there are few quirks... but it is working without fail for years and I saved myself from paying a monopoly "biznis"

 

TIR does not annihilate anything... is just an alternative to Freetrack or Facetrack etc. No fuss... no complications... No hardware building... no Software tweaking... No 160Euros... If is a good deal to you... perfect.:thumbup:

 

Ja, I got PS3 Eye. Got 60 FPS but FreeTrack after some time makes lags. Response is getting slower and slower - it doesn't mean delay after 1 hour will be i.e 3 seconds - no. But it is far away than beginning.

FreeTrack app is abandomed, FaceTrack is far from perfect. I decided to spend euros and I'd do that again despite what I've said about NP and it's ridicoulus price for TiR.

[Cobra847]

The Rift uses the same solution as the TrackIR. 6 DOF given by tracking a set pattern of discrete points in space, in its case supplemented with an onboard IMU. It also has a camera that you have to place in a proper position at a proper distance for optimal usage. It's really not that revolutionary or different in terms of head tracking.

 

But it is far superior in the tracking algorithms, precision and general usability. ESPECIALLY with the consumer version, which has trackers on the back of the headstrap allowing you to rotate freely.

[Pikey]

Why is this post even here? If TrackIR is dead etc, then why isn't there anything better in that space that is commercially available or free right now?

 

What the post was trying to say was that it wished there was a viable alternative. But there isn't and yes its a shocking price for the technology, but there's no money to be made, no one can or wants to get in that market space (especially remembering the lawsuits vs FTN or freetrack cant remember which) and it will die a natural death when replaced by ... Oh wait...OR isn't the same thing and is more expensive.

 

Had a TIR3 10y ago, then got vector pro then bought Tir5 18 months ago. it's worked out at roughly 7 cents a day to buy and has provided thousands of hours of fun.

 

Considering my internet bill per month, it's cheap. I want to know why everyone thinks internet connectivity is so cheap and the price of software and hardware is so expensive. None of this makes any sense to me.

[Vullcan]

We did appreciate them, time and time again we have been buying the Track IR versions even though we probably didn't need to (as someone mentioned they are still using TrackIR 3 just fine).

 

The problem is with all that revenue we sent, they never improved the product usability and they never showed an indication that they were making advances with the technology other than increasing the resolution and field of view (as the main points if I can remember). Items which simply come with them purchasing and slapping in better sensors I'd hazard to guess.

 

If you're at work and you complete some huge project that's great for everyone and nets you a big raise, but then just coast for the next few years doing the bare minimum to stay employed how would your co-workers view you?

 

Heck, how long have we been asking for a better designed TrackClip PRO? They just this year have finally made the plastic slightly stronger. It still feels fragile, maybe a bit less so; the old track clip reminds me of companies who design a part to fail after a certain period of time so you will have to buy a new one. Guess how much it costs to order a piece of plastic and 3 LED's with a USB cord attached? Its nearly $45-50 after they overcharge you on the shipping.

 

How long have we been asking for wireless? How hard is that? If we can make our own trackclip into a wireless version with no EE degree, how hard would it be for them to release one that was designed that way from the start, which in theory would be lighter weight and superior with no battery packs hanging off or velcroed to our headphones.

 

The Oculus is here now, several of us are using them. Its here and just as real as the beta versions of DCS World that we download before the official release.

 

Thank you NaturalPoint for your hard work a long time ago, but now is the time to reinvent or step aside, because we finally have another option and boy are we sure looking forward to it.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I know VR sounds like a great deal.

 

Let me run this by you though, have you thought about the fact you are not going to be able to see your flight stick or your mouse?

 

Oculus Rift is going to be great until you have to use your mouse to flip a switch or turn a dial or reach an odd switch on your TM Warthog, then the faults of it will hit people like a ton of bricks.

[DayGlow]

I know VR sounds like a great deal.

 

Let me run this by you though, have you thought about the fact you are not going to be able to see your flight stick or your mouse?

 

Oculus Rift is going to be great until you have to use your mouse to flip a switch or turn a dial or reach an odd switch on your TM Warthog, then the faults of it will hit people like a ton of bricks.

 

Don't need to look at my mouse/stick right now :dunno:

 

DCS level aircraft makes more sense for OR than say a FC level as with DCS airframes all the controls are in game. With a FC airframe you need the keyboard.

 

What TIR has over other solutions so far is latency. Kinect isn't there yet.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

delete

Edited October 2, 2014 by ZQuickSilverZ
Duplicate post

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Only problem I have with Tir is the wires. I have the 5 with the pro clip and the wire gets tangle with other wires. They should have come out with a wireless pro clip by now. If they do im jumping on it.

 

I have to say all things considered that is my number one complaint as well.

[Chivas]

I've used Track IR from its first versions on. Track IR was one of the most immersive additions to a combat flight simmers hardware, and most of those who tried TrackIR never went back to using a hatswitch. VR will be far more immersive than Track IR and most of the people who experience it will never go back to using their Track IR. How long this transition will take is anyone guess. The current DK2 isn't good enough, but the latest Cresent Bay prototype has made some major advances. The consumer version should be even better.

 

Not being able to see a Hotas/keyboard will be an issue for some people, but most will find away around it, either thru a VR hardware passthru feature, or just by learning to use their Hotas without having to look.

 

I find no problem using my complex HOTA's system without having to look at it, and will not use any type of passthru VR feature that breaks "presense". A click-able cockpit and Voice recognition software for tower communication etc should also work quite well.

[BigfootMSR]

Apart from the trackclip pro feeling fragile... I believe its still a great product. There a ton of games that support it not just the ones that the OP presented.

[vicx]

Just got my Rift DK2 and of course I tested it with DCS. This isn't a RIFT thread so I won't give you my impressions on DCS in VR - I'll do that in the RIFT thread.

 

What I will comment on here is how good the tracking is on the RIFT DK2. I decided to install Opentrack, wear the RIFT like a cap and try tracking with my 30" monitor as the viewport.

 

It works just like a TIR but it will track even if you turn your head and look behind you (which isn't that useful but 1:1 360 degree tracking is still pretty cool).

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I find no problem using my complex HOTA's system without having to look at it, and will not use any type of passthru VR feature that breaks "presense". A click-able cockpit and Voice recognition software for tower communication etc should also work quite well.

 

First off I have used MS Game Commander voice recognition software and you are right, it does work great, even with my deep southern voice. That is a solution we can use NOW. No need to wait for the tech it is already here.

 

Second I get the general concept of a VR pasthrough (something that lets you momentarily see into the real world) but can you go a bit into the mechanics of how that would work.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Track IR was one of the most immersive additions to a combat flight simmers hardware, and most of those who tried TrackIR never went back to using a hatswitch.

 

Was? You mean is, and is is part of the problem. Headtracking has not evolved in years despite the availability of other solutions. NaturalPoint's solution from YEARS ago is still the only game in town. Anybody that thinks accelerometers and gyroscopes will not work needs to go play a Wii for 5 minutes then reexamine their position.

 

I agree TrackIR works well, but it has a few problems that have not and probably will not (judging from the companies lack of action over the years) be addresses. First is the issue of the wire. I got a wireless headset to eliminate the tangling issues (Turtle Beach Z300, works great by the way). The problem with that is I am still wired to the desktop. I know many of you will say just unhook the TrackClip..... well the problem with that is the TrackClip is so cheaply made I have to tape the back of it with electrical tape to keep it closed, otherwise it just wants to pop open. My TrackClip is a Frankenstein of glue, electrical tape, and cheap plastic. Another issue with the wire is it hits my headphones while in use, believe it or not it is pretty loud. That itself is pretty annoying.

 

Then there is the loss of tracking whenever I look down.

 

At this point there are 2 solutions that would make me happy, for NaturalPoint to offer a wireless HIGHER QUALITY TrackClip pro or (more preferable) to go to another device that hooks to your headset and uses accelerometers and gyroscopes to take care of the FoV issue that plagues me during flight sessions.

 

I am not saying TrackIR is not a good product. You are right that it does it's job pretty well. My issue is they have not done a thing to address community concerns or evolve their product over the years because they have a monopoly on the head tracking market. People will bring up the free head tracking options but the fact is those solutions are poorly supported and are actually just workarounds, not dedicated products. There is no other RETAIL company for NaturalPoint to compete with and the customer has been paying the price for it for years.

 

I don't want to beat a dead horse so I won't comment further on this unless someone asks me a specific question. I just wanted to clarify my grievances.

Edited October 2, 2014 by ZQuickSilverZ

[Erdem]

I have a TrackIR 4 Pro for about 8 years now and it still works perfectly, the hardware is definitely top-notch.

 

That being said, it IS overpriced. Though, you have to consider that they're pretty much the only company producing a tracking camera exclusively for simulations and their market isn't huge, hence the price.

 

I think the availability of VR headsets is going to kill their business nevertheless.

[Abburo]

VR headsets will definetely impact TrackIR marketshare, however it will not make it obsolete. Not all people will adhere to new technology and the simplicity and reliability of TIR is hard to beat whatever anybody is saying against it. And I also believe that new VR will not be largely spreaded sooner than 4-5 years from now on.

[98abaile]

I'm quite sure that the rift will be the better tracking system, but it's the screen I'm worried about. Those of you complaing about cables and low fov now, will only be complaining about screen door effect later.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I'm quite sure that the rift will be the better tracking system, but it's the screen I'm worried about. Those of you complaing about cables and low fov now, will only be complaining about screen door effect later.

 

I am a bit confused. I thought that the screen actually extended outside of the users peripheral vision. Is this not so. I am sure I read that.

[cichlidfan]

I am a bit confused. I thought that the screen actually extended outside of the users peripheral vision. Is this not so. I am sure I read that.

 

How would that be possible with a flat screen of small enough size to attach to your face?

[Call911]

Still works fine here too will keep it anyday over paying god knows what for somthing untested an true. It's stable platform thats just me though.

[rrohde]

I only got my first TrackIR recently, and I am very impressed with it. Can't believe I was flying without head-tracking for this long; TrackIR totally changed flight simming for me.

 

So long as there are people like me who haven't had head-tracking before, TrackIR is a total game changer -- and unlike VR goggles, I can still see my keyboard. :)