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How to Land the Dora


wolle

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Why is Dora so different then P-51 to land or takeoff?

If you look at gears placement, its very similar wheel width extended.

So it would be handling same on runway. But Dora acts more that a ME109 with narrow landing gears.

Both have tail wheel, Dora is locked but not P-51?

So why is it so hard to keep Dora straight on runway at takeoff, but not P-51?

And why do Dora bounce a lot when landing, but not P-51? Its like they don't have any shock absorber on Dora that deals with the bouncing. P-51 landing gear deals with bouncing much better then Dora. Even if you let P-51 drop down on track, it don't get so much airborne again as Dora.

When getting up to speed with Dora, you might think its tail should at least keeping it straight, but it moves all over the runway, like you have lost the tail.

it really is a strange plane to takeoff and land....

 

Did you fly Bf-109? As we release Kurfurst you can try one... :)

 

For me Dora is not very different from the Mustang... as you take a look at dusty old pages of our forum you will find almost the same whinings about Mustang.

 

THe first difference is that Dora has CoG more aft from the main wheels and thus she is more unstable. It is more unstable as she has main wheel wider. More over these two planes has different tailwheel logic, different points of unlocking it, different weight distribution between main and tail wheels, different MOIs.

 

Is it enough to let both planes have different behaviour? Anyway, there is one thing that is generally common for both - ANTICIPATION!

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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spot landing on runway threshold with landing roll below 500 m

 

Before any 190 D-9 pilot was sent on combat mission he had to show that he is able

to takoff and land the Dora safely. At the time the Dora was in operation

most of the German airfields were grass strips with an average runway length of 800 m (2600 ft).

 

After some attempts I was able to take off orderly, repeatedly, having no damage.

Meanwhile my take off runs do not require more than 500m (1640 ft).

Stick back, full (!) power, keep it (rudder) on the runway, at 170 km/h center stick slowly - lift off.

 

But trying to get to ground safely was a major challenge.

Initial landing attempts were only successful provided that I used more or less 2.000 m (6.600 ft)

of the runway length to full stop. Therefore I was complaining in the forum that it’s impossible

to land the Dora on short fields with e.g. 800 m runway length.

I was wrong, fully wrong. It IS possible!!!

 

Yo-Yo reported that he was able to land the Dora with less than 800m landing roll.

His remark has stimulated my ambition. After many systematic trials with different landing techniques

I managed to land and stop the Dora even below 500m away from the start of the runway.

And I was able to perform a stable spot landing in 3 point configuration right on the threshold of the KRYMSK runway 22.

 

See the Video here:

 

 

 

For reference I have put 3 containers at the right side right of the runway 22.

The first container is 500m (1640 ft) away from start of the runway, the second 600m (1970 ft)

and the third 700m (2300 ft)

 

As you can see in the video I was flying a flat approach with minimum sink rate

during the last 300 m before reaching the threshold. The speed during this approach is shown in the insert.

About 500 m before the runway IAS was 250 km/h with power setting of 1800 rpm.

While slowly, carefully increasing the angle of attack the plane slows down to about 220 km/h.

Be careful! If you pull too much the plane may stall easily.

50 - 100 m before touch down I only control the final sink rate by pulling throttle back gently.

After touch down I apply full (!) both wheel brakes. I was wondering that I experienced no headstand.

Dora's brake characteristic is much different to the P-51D.

The P-51D pilot may only deploy the wheel brakes with extreme care.

 

And I was wrong saying elsewhere that the Fw 190 D-9’s flying properties are not really predictable.

The more you’re getting used to the properties of this specific flying model the more confidence you’re building in the Dora,

she is a truly predictable plane. To me the Fw 190 D-9 appears even more stable than the flying properties of the P-51D.

 

 

Happy flying - safe landings

W.E., Germany


Edited by wernst
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The more you’re getting used to the properties of this specific flying model the more confidence you’re building in the Dora, she is a truly predictable plane. To me the Fw 190 D-9 appears even more stable than the flying properties of the P-51D.

 

Seconded. After only a couple of T/O and landings I know more or less what to expect. The learning curve on the P-51D was much steeper. But then again, that maybe has more to do with limitations and bad habits from other sims.

 

Very nice landing btw.!

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WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature

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That's great skill Wernst ... Definitely going to aim to land like that. :thumbup: :pilotfly: :joystick:

 

 

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This is my first attempt landing the dora and ended up a deadstick.

 

you have passed your Fw 190 D-9 Rating successfully, ready for combat mission.

You're well prepared for an off field landing after engine stop which might be rather likely happen in combat

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This is my first attempt landing the dora and ended up a deadstick.

 

your video is now listed as "private", no access anymore. Any reason?

 

When I've seen the video first I was wondering why the prop wasn't spinning.

Even with engine power off the prop will keep spinning in the air, at least slowly.

The prop only stops altogether due to a jammed or poorly turning engine.

I wonder whether this type of engine failure has been implemented into Dora's system sim.


Edited by wernst
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Fw 190 D-9 emergency landing after simulated engine failure

 

Engine failure may occur in or off combat mission.

 

This video demonstrates an emergency landing after simulated engine shut down (throttle: "AUS", fuel selector: "ZU", magnetos: "0")

from 4.000 ft above field (KRYMSK)

 

 

happy flying - safe landing


Edited by wernst
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After 8 hours of practice, I can now take off quite decently. What I conclude from it is that you should follow every instruction Wag gives in the video tutorial. Yes, every instruction. If you increase the throttle too fast, the plane will quickly slip to one side when you center the stick. If you center the stick sooner or later than 170 km/h, say 160 or 180, the same things will happen.

 

The room for error when taking off and landing in this plane is unbelievably small. I don't know if the fw-190s IRL acted like this. But if it is so difficult to land a factory-new plane, I can't imagine how those pilots managed to walk away from their damaged planes.

 

Also, there seems to be some bugs regarding the FM of gliding wreck. For a few time, I've seen my upside-down wingless plane which is gliding down the runway magically turned right way up through quickly rotating along the longitudinal axis.

 

Another question I want to ask is:

 

I found that the "Final Approach" instant mission starts with 100% fuel. Were 190 pilots allowed to land with full fuel quantity?

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After flying a lot over the last couple of weeks I found this to work best for me:

 

Line up on the runway and lock tail wheel, break, center the stick, full throttle, release breaks before the nose tips over and then just keep it centered with (mainly) right rudder and let it fly off the runway. It works perfectly even with light crosswind. With strong crosswind I just lock the tail wheel until I build up some speed and of course you might need more rudder to keep it on the runway.

 

 

I can keep it pretty much centered on the runway with this method



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After mostly failed landing attempts in the Dora (can easily do it with autorudder and 0% assist) I revisited the Mustang out of sheer frustration ... and found it almost childishly easy to land. Take-off, same story. The damage model of the Mustang also looks more forgiving. It flips over and catches fire, leaving you plenty of time to bail out and walk away unscathed.

Whereas the Dora ... it flips over and explodes instantly. I find it harder to believe it's just the learning curve.


Edited by Hans-Joachim Marseille
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After knowing that the correct touch-down speed is around 210, I made a few more attempts, hoping that the tendency of Dora shifting to right upon touch-down will reduce. However, the problem remains. I am unable to use rudder to counter this.

 

Can anyone have a look at my track?

 

Your rudder pedal to counter the yaw looked like slow motion.The yaw started and you slowly start adding in rudder to compensate and then you add alot of rudder.Try lots of rudder and then ease off.

"Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly:

 

i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle

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your video is now listed as "private", no access anymore. Any reason?

 

When I've seen the video first I was wondering why the prop wasn't spinning.

Even with engine power off the prop will keep spinning in the air, at least slowly.

The prop only stops altogether due to a jammed or poorly turning engine.

I wonder whether this type of engine failure has been implemented into Dora's system sim.

 

The video will be up now ,just had a drama with settings.my guess is that the seized engine stopped it and the dora has no prop feather so I guess the prop stalled up with the motor.

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For me taking off in the dora is not a problem after a few weeks of smoothing things out.I think everyone one will have there own approach to T\O as they learn the plane.

I struggled more with landing and If I don't focus enough for that delicate touch down ,I end up a burnt mess or loose a wheel or wing.

Got to luv the Dora

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Your rudder pedal to counter the yaw looked like slow motion.The yaw started and you slowly start adding in rudder to compensate and then you add alot of rudder.Try lots of rudder and then ease off.

 

I didn't even see Wag and other players in this thread need to do an abrupt and harsh rudder input upon touch-down. I can't figure out why my Dora will shift to the right fiercely upon touch-down, which is unable to counter with rudder control. I'd rather think that this is a bug.

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I didn't even see Wag and other players in this thread need to do an abrupt and harsh rudder input upon touch-down. I can't figure out why my Dora will shift to the right fiercely upon touch-down, which is unable to counter with rudder control. I'd rather think that this is a bug.

 

Its not shifting fiercely.its slowly starting to drift and you need to add in more rudder to catch it before it just gets out of hand.Think to be more aggressive and dance on the pedals.

 

If you are using the Saiteks then remove your feet fom the pedals and use the balls of your feet to press on the lower edge instead.This allows you to more quickly move the pedals around and also to quickly remove your feet from touching the pedals so they center completely.You just need to change your feet mind connection.Be more aggressive and throw the pedals around,try it.

"Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly:

 

i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle

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. . .

I struggled more with landing and If I don't focus enough for that delicate touch down ,I end up a burnt mess or loose a wheel or wing.

Got to luv the Dora

 

Hi Godpeed, I refer to your youtube video “DCS FW190 deadstick.1st landing”

If this was your first Dora flight with first landing attempt even after engine died and prop stopped spinning . . .

Why then complain about "struggling with landing"? Was it skills or one time luck?

A “lively” dead stick landing as shown in your video can’t be luck, it couldn’t have been done better

(except a little dancing at the end of landing roll)

If you can perform a dead stick landing as such what is difficult about a normal landing with full power control?

 

Meanwhile I was also able to provoke an engine seize with prop spinning stop.

It’s not that easy, the Jumo 213-A1 was sturdy built and is not as critical heat sensitive as e.g. the DCS P-51D.

It took me more than 20 minutes flight with max. power (throttle to “START”, 3.250 rpm) and MW-50 boost switch “EIN”

until Dora's engine died and the prop stopped spinning. I was lucky to perform a dead stick emergency landing

without damage from 6.000 ft above the near field.


Edited by wernst
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Have noticed that if the ailerons are even only slightly up/down, the aircraft will respond going right/left, even if the rudder is neutral. You have to use the brakes, stabbing on off to stop it ground looping.

I can now take off and land without killing myself but it's not pretty sometimes, lol. Found that driving it around on the deck with tailwheel unlocked just using brakes helped a lot as well. Good luck.

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Honestly, I think this is a bug. I need to deflect the stick to the right in order to counter the tendency to roll left. I'm unable to make the stick center upon touchdown.

 

Since two ailerons deflects at the same angle. Moving ailerons when running down the runway should not make big difference to the speed of the left and right wing, if at all.

 

Also, doing differential braking using buttons is way too difficult. Please allow us to use (left and right) rudder twist as left and right wheel brake axis.

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Sorry didn't realise you weren't using pedals. Can't recommend enough that you get some.. the 109k could be a real handfull. A cheap stick with twist rudder could be canabalised to make a set of pedals with brakes if you're slightly of the DIY tendency. And you'd have the choice of setting angle/width of your pedals. Have saiteks myself and they are just up to it with DCS regarding feel. If it were possible to use FFB pedals I'd be getting the tools out!

About the ailerons, when the tailwheel is near the ground or on it the the one that is raised is hidden somewhat by the wing in front of it. The one that sticks down however is in the airflow unimpeded hence the twisting on landing. Just noticed this last night so have some work to do to correct it. :)

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I didn't even see Wag and other players in this thread need to do an abrupt and harsh rudder input upon touch-down. I can't figure out why my Dora will shift to the right fiercely upon touch-down, which is unable to counter with rudder control. I'd rather think that this is a bug.

 

You are not doing a correct 3 point landing. You hit runway with main wheels and then bounced. You won't easily counter this with rudder: low speed, low rpm - no propwash. Try landing more softer and with tailwheel touching the runway. Ideally you should pull the stick the right moment and stall the aircraft just before it touches the ground. This way you will have locked tail wheel (pull the stick) without jumping back to air.

 

As for shifting to right. Your track played on my computer showing you hitting left wheel first, then springing to right. Also, prop is like huge gyro. Move it up and down violently (like when bouncing), and it will yaw you.

Wir sehen uns in Walhalla.

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Honestly, I think this is a bug. I need to deflect the stick to the right in order to counter the tendency to roll left. I'm unable to make the stick center upon touchdown.

 

Since two ailerons deflects at the same angle. Moving ailerons when running down the runway should not make big difference to the speed of the left and right wing, if at all.

 

Also, doing differential braking using buttons is way too difficult. Please allow us to use (left and right) rudder twist as left and right wheel brake axis.

 

Its not a bug its more that the FM is a bitch to handle.There are alot of issues with trying to control an advanced prop FM with desktop controls.It will cause many people to have a harsh time getting the hang of it.Same with racing sims and how people jump into them and are all over the place for a good while yet can drive cars perfectly.Eventually you learn to see the cues of what the car/plane is doing earlier.

 

That said I noticed that you also have the offset rudder pedals in controls indicator.Lets see if this gets fixed and I "hope" it can cure some issues.One "might" be that since you are landing and the rudder pedal is pushing to the right the right wing is not moving as fast and so this could be the cause of the wing drop.I am throwing shit out there so take this with the knowledge that I have no idea what I am talking about.:megalol:

"Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly:

 

i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle

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