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Would You Pay For AFM In All Flyables


Would You Pay For AFM In All Flyables  

168 members have voted

  1. 1. Would You Pay For AFM In All Flyables

    • Yes, I would pay for AFM
    • No, I would not pay for AFM


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it just seems that if they decided to do it, we will be playing lockon for the next 2-3 years without any succesor to lockon being forthcoming which in my opinion is a bad idea.

 

I think you may have unrealistic expectations about how long it'll take to produce LOMAC2 (or whatever it'll be called). The steady drip of patches and paid upgrades for LOMAC has perhaps spoiled us.

 

Andrew McP

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Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN
I think you may have unrealistic expectations about how long it'll take to produce LOMAC2 (or whatever it'll be called). The steady drip of patches and paid upgrades for LOMAC has perhaps spoiled us.

 

Andrew McP

 

I have ?

 

i tell you one thing, if it isnt out withing 2 years then something is wrong.

 

once BS is done, they be moving onto other things, which i presume they have some of the ground work already done, i dont know but i believe that it will be out within 2 years.

 

2008 is the magic number

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I would pay for AFM, not necessarily for LOMAC as scotty said, but definatly a major feature in anyhting for the future.

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I doubt you can market such an addon successfully. Sure the core audience will embrace it, but that's it - good luck finding a publisher for something that many will consider only a tweak anyway. It's also not as easy to trade features against each others, as in "AFM updates for the current flyables instead of a flyable helicopter". Development doesn't work like that.

 

Appreciate that Caretaker ... I'm sure nothing is going to change in 1.2 at this late stage. But its a voice from a number of EDs loyal customers for the future.

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It is out of questin if this community would pay for AFM. However, Eagle Dynamics needs to think what feature would be most likely be bringing more profit.

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Yes, I would pay for AFM in future projects but not for Lock-On/FC.

 

 

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....I will be willing to pay $100 just for AFM and new model for the flanker.

 

I agree. I will be willing to pay €.100 for revised Su-33 model (and Su-27 of course) having all features like BS, and enhanced model of Kuznetsov.

I've write it.

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I have ?

 

i tell you one thing, if it isnt out withing 2 years then something is wrong.

 

once BS is done, they be moving onto other things, which i presume they have some of the ground work already done, i dont know but i believe that it will be out within 2 years.

 

2008 is the magic number

 

Do you have any idea how long it took for LOMAC 1.00 to go gold?

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Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN

whats that got to do with what we speaking bout ?

 

Nada.

 

my point being, that lomac is old, why continue to use old technology and wait another year + minimum for afm on all other birds which would stop them from concentrating on newer sims...

 

Blackshark was spoken about roughly less than 1 year ago, and its nearing completion, so getting software ready to be released isnt as hard/long as one would think, it can be but it all depends on the circumstances.

 

April of last year was the release of FC and no mention of BS was known before that, so a new version of lomac could easily be launched summer of 2008/spring 2009 or thereabouts, as i firmly believe that they have a good proportion of it started but are not working on it fully if at all due to BS and other patches for FC, thus once BS is released and Ed get there head down and start to work fulltime on its succesor it could verywell be released mid 2008 begining 2009.

 

I would buy afm addon for lomac, but I would rather ED concentrating on the next generation of sims once BS has been released, as if they did concentrate on afm for all birds and weapons then we will be waiting another year+ for that then another 2/3years maybe more for the next gen lomac which in my opinion is far too long to wait considering a few next gen sims may very well be released in that time.

 

Everyone here loves lomac, but they would rather its succesor came along sooner rather than later as even the best of todays hardware isnt that great for lomac due to its buggy/bad code and really bad shaders and rendering techniques all of which are based on dx8 which is ancient by todays standards and even dx9c is nearing the end of its short life. By the end of this year dx10 will be the norm due to vista, So unless something is done within the next year or 2, then the next lockon we will see will be using dx12/13 or thereabouts which is years away, so it brings us back to my point, Ed as much as we all would love to see an afm addon, dont do it unless you can do it as a side job with no rush or manpower being dragged away from lockons succesor.

 

Basically, if they did decide to make an afm addon then as long as it never interfered with work/manpower/timing for lomacs succesors then cool, if it did then I would rather it wasnt made, as no doubt lomacs succesor will have afm for all birds, so why delay its release for an older game just so that we can have afm for the birds in lomac which we will have anyway in the near future in its succesor.....

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Point is that it took them well over 4 years to use an allready existing engine for LOMAC, and it was released unfinished. At todays standards, its well over 6 years to get to the point that it was intended to be. So to say its going to be within 2 years for a new flight sim altogether seems (to me) quite absurd.

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Release an AFM SDK for a fee and let 3rd party do the work and charge what they want. Kind of like FS9?

 

P.S. I would pay... mostly because I'd like to see the LOMAC series continued, upgraded, expanded... instead of having a seperate game for each A/C which seems to be the direction things are going. I like the survey sim aspect, and would prefer they spent time bring each aircraft to a study sim level.

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Point is that it took them well over 4 years to use an allready existing engine for LOMAC, and it was released unfinished. At todays standards, its well over 6 years to get to the point that it was intended to be. So to say its going to be within 2 years for a new flight sim altogether seems (to me) quite absurd.

 

I think u hit(man) the nail on the head. Whats wrong with the Maddox approach, which has continued to release titles, based on the same engine, with significant improvements as they go along. That way they loose very little of the improvement they make, and patches in PF dont need to address issues which were fixed in IL2 (by and large). We could see 'new' theatres,, 'new' flyables (with AFM), maybe a 'new' campaign engine (dynamic).

 

What i would not like to see is a brand new sim, which boasts '64 bit' multi processor support, and a new fancy graphics engine, but we have to wait another couple of years (on top of the release date, to make it as bug free as we've got lomac to now.

 

If you think about it, the issue is less to do with what ED is working on, as I believe they are working on 'improving' what the have currently completed, and building on their knowledge and expertise. Whats more important to what they or we 'call' what they are doing, new or addon, is how this is marketed, and sold to the publisher. Take a look at how Maddox have approached this, and their resulting success.

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"Everything in life is a trade off of something else you could have done..."

 

Your sig seems appropriate for this topic. Every vote for one feature is by necessity a vote AGAINST another feature, that could be done instead. That's why I voted no. AFMs are very nice, but not even in the "top three" of what I'm most missing in this sim.

 

-SK

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I think u hit(man) the nail on the head. Whats wrong with the Maddox approach, which has continued to release titles, based on the same engine, with significant improvements as they go along.

 

The problem is that Lock-On, based on Flanker, was not written in a modular fashion. Lock-On still has bugs carried forward from the Flanker 1.5 days. To continue to pile code on top of buggy code, means you will have a pile of buggy code.

 

It's best that ED starts fresh. This way, if a major advancement is made (for example, the graphics engine), ED doesn't have to rewrite the ENTIRE game. That , in turn, means less chance that they will break one section of code to change another.

Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean

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Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN
Point is that it took them well over 4 years to use an allready existing engine for LOMAC, and it was released unfinished. At todays standards, its well over 6 years to get to the point that it was intended to be. So to say its going to be within 2 years for a new flight sim altogether seems (to me) quite absurd.

How can you say absurd ? how do you know that they dont have a good whack of it put together due to all there existing work, just like il2.

 

Just because it will be a new game doesnt mean to say that it will be 100% new code or whatever. They could use elements of what they have now thus saving time by not having to completely rewrite the code for a new game.

 

so, if I am absurd, and my time estimates are off, which I say it will be released 2008/2009, what are your time estimates ? 2010/2011/2012 ?

come on, if they waited that long to release a game they would soon go out of business.

 

2-3 years from now would be perfect timing to release a new sim, 5 years after lomac and I seriously think you over estimate what they have to do.

 

They have the map, the region is already mapped out, and we will probably still get eastern europe as a conflict zone in the tank killers or whatever its called.

 

I believe ED have way way more than they have lead us to believe and all these patches for FC are probably testing grounds on what they will add to there newer sims thus that parts done aswell.

 

I am not saying its easy or quick, but I dont think it will be released later than 2009.

 

many people here seem to under estimate what can and cant be done and what has to be done, I am sure there are many many more people who know more about this than i, but you say its taken them 6 years to get to this point ? ok i am not disagreeing with ya, but who's to say that since lomac and fc was released that they havent been working on the succesor since then ? Remember ED does other things that are not for us, which we will probably see some aspects of it.

 

the AC model for the 25t cannot get any better in my eyes, maybe a tiny little bit but not much, so thats done for the next sim, the new helo is done, and I am sure, if the shark is made, so is the apache but it will remain hidden until ed decides to let us see it, so what else is done and is just waitng to be added to a new sim when the have the framework for it all ?

 

bottom line, I think the next sim tank killers isnt that far off as some people like to think.

 

I will bet that no later than the end of 2009 will the next sim be released.

 

As i said before, the more ed keep fiddling with lockon after BS, then the longer we all have to wait for the new sim.

 

Just look at eds release times for lomac, its just over 2 years from the relase of lomac, it is now coming up for 1 year after FC and now BS is being released.

 

Now work that out, every year they release something new, so do you really think that with the release of BS nothing else will be forthcoming for another 4 years as thats what I think you think is the time frame for the release.

 

ED cannot afford to not sell something substantial every year, nevermind 4 years and since they have stated that BS is the last addon for lockon then no way on earth will there be a 4 year + wait like you seem to think...

 

now, its back to ultimate choppers on channel 5 in the uk, 8pm - 9pm.

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heh.. well Yes I would pay for AFM.. but the realities of the business.. .... ... The series has lots of things to do that are of similar, equal, or higher priority. Whoever said that the AFM would be supported by US but not viewed as anything new is right, IMO. If they are not generating revenue- and lots of it- then the whole show will grind to a halt. They never die quickly & mercifully either. it's preceded by months or years of "man they suck, they don't support such & such.. they didn't do this, all they had to do is that" and on & on...........

 

They gotta create new & exciting products that grows their audience, too. ED's focus on realism is both their blessing & their curse. We love them for it-most of the time- but we are a small (and rather disturbed) faction of the gaming market. Very risky. They can't screw it up often and live.

 

I don't recall ED saying an AFM SU-33 ( :icon_pray ) or F-15 will never, ever happen- just not in this series.

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Lock-On is comparable with Forgotten Battles in a way.

 

Oleg's team has used the existing FB engine to test new technologies that will appear in Battle of Britain. Experimental flight modelling and graphical tweaks have been the signature of almost every new patch in the last year.

 

With Lock-On, Flaming Cliffs (very) successfully proved the AFM concept and Black Shark introduces even more technological progress with a clickable cockpit, WAFM and 6DOF viewing.

 

So while it could be said that the inclusion of the Su-25T and the Ka-50 flags up some inadequacy in the rest of the flyables it gives an idea of what to expect when the next sim arrives. Looking at FC and BS as diverting resources away from the next project seems short sighted IMO. The new technologies being used and refined in BS and FC can only help the dev team when work starts on Tank Killers (or whatever comes next).

 

Who knows....maybe there will be a Dynamic Camaign add-on in the same vain as BS or FC just to test the concept before Lock-On is put out to pasture?

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Now I did not say it would take ED 6 years to build another flight simulation. I DID, however, say that to start from scratch would take much longer than just 2 years with the amount of recources at hand. I wholeheartedly agree that they need to write a new engine and if ED can design a new flight sim from scratch and have it operational at the level that LOMAC is currently at then I shall eat my words. Notice I said from scratch.

 

I keep hearing (on these forums) that Tank Killers will be using the LOMAC engine (correct me if I am wrong on this, I am assuming off of memory). If that is correct then tank killers should be out within the next few years. Now going off of how long they took LOMAC to get to its current point, I would say that it will take at least a good 3 years to get a new flight sim in a final beta state. fact is its going to be a while before they release a new engine.

 

As far as my vote goes, the reason why I want AFM is because I would rather have realistic flight instead of realistic terrain or high grade weapons. Im more of a barnstormer kinda guy. And Im willin to say that everyone wants afm is because most ppl here will never fly an actual aircraft, even though a lot of you have and do quite regularly. Me and my .02c

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Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN

Its all good hitman, whatever happens is only to our benefit, I would love to see all AC and weapons have AFM, just not at the expense of an extra year or 2 onto the next version.

 

apart from the 25t, I think the next best aircraft that could/should get afm is the 33. Carrier landings with afm would be magic, but saying that, it will be uber hard and people will just let the autopilot land for them :D

 

I myself prefer helicopters, so I may be biased on why I dont want an payable addon for afm for all birds, however if it was released as a ty gift from ed for our diehard dedication to lomac and also as a lomac parting gift then that would be cool, what would be the best thing is a SDK as someone already mentioned.

 

If a SDK was released and someone will the right skills got hold of it, lockon could end up similar to f4 in the long term, as I am sure lockon will be played for many many years to come, and it would be ashame for it to end untouched after BS.

 

There is so many talented peeps on these boards that could do magic things with a SDK, I maybe wrong but i fear that 000beee would never allow it to be released :(

 

anyway, whatever ED do decide to release next after BS, chances are I will buy it just for the fact that I love lomac and if there track record is anything to go by then its a cert that it will be magic.

 

I seriously cant wait til BS comes out, an up to date helo sim is what I and loads of others have been waiting for, I have seen some BS ingame screenshots and all i have to say is DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM we are all gonna love this game and I mean love it.

 

lets just hope that when it is released that ED decide to get more bandwidth for there servers are lately there FC downloads has been like 20kbs or so at times :(

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I think this is kind of a given among sim pilots. It is for Me anyway, I mean...what good is a sim if it's not Accurately modeled? The whole point of flying is to "Feel" like you're there. So far I think ED has done an execellent job. Keep up the good work

"I know Not that which you have said, but if I had medication I would (Robin Williams)"

 

 

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If a SDK was released and someone will the right skills got hold of it, lockon could end up similar to f4 in the long term, as I am sure lockon will be played for many many years to come, and it would be ashame for it to end untouched after BS.

 

There is no SDK. It would have to be developed first... taking more precious development time away before anything could be released again by ED themselves. Falcon4 did not have an SDK either, but the whole sourcecode available, and although a whole bunch of talented people were involved with it, it took 7+ years to finally get a mostly stable release out of that - and still only for the F-16.

 

I'm all for community involvement in various areas, I'm happy to already see the first inclusion of 3rd party 3D models as a start. But having people create flight or even avionics models is just not an option.

Caretaker

 

ED Beta Test Team

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