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aim-9 advantage?


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one question from my experience in lomac, have played it for 2 years, great game.

what's the advantage of aim-9 for f-15 besides its silence, i know it's a close range a2a missile, but i think aim-7 can do a lot better job than the aim-9 in close range, it has greater off bore sight ability, larger warhead, sometimes even i can hit the target by using the aim-9, however, most time it would not make a lethal kill, especially when the closure rate is high and the range is really short. the aim-7, on the other hand, usually can blow the target out of sky. and it's very hard for aim-9 to hit a high aspect angle target, i know missiles will have a low pk when firing at a high aspect angle target, but the aim-7 ususally won't miss. unless the target breaks the lock or dump chaff like crazy, it's very very rear to see an aim-7 miss a target during a dogfight with primeter of 0-2nm, once i got a lockon, and using the aim-7 pretty much means the target is dead, not in the case by using aim-9 though. in my experience, the aim-7 has around 95%pk in close combat, the aim-9 only around 50%. i know if you say get to target's 6 and will have a higher pk, but the aim-9's range is so short, usually when i got to target's 6 and the aim-9 is in the good position to fire, it's already in my gun range, it doesn't take any longer by using gun to make the kill. beyond gun's range, the pk of aim-9 would be around 50-60 compare to aim-7 almost close to 100%. plus the aim-7 also can do bvr, unless lomac introduce aim-9x, which would be another story, should i load aim-7 instead of aim-9 bc 2 aim-9's will take 2 of my bvr missile spot. also i know the aim-9 has lower min firing range, since the effect of target's explosion is not model in lomac, i sometimes also fire aim-7 even it's within its min range, which there is a big "x" on my hud, but still, the aim-7 can make the kill, ironically and usually the aim-9 can't do that a good job at that close. i think it's the fact that the aim-7 aways drop then fire, which slows down it a little bitand allows it to prepare a better angle, that means when the missile started to fire, it's already pretty much facing the target. the aim-9, however, fires straight out, and when it's ready to turn to the target, usually it takes around 0.1 second, if the range is very close, it already about to pass it and the aim-9m is not good enough to pull itself to the target at that close range, the story for the aim-7 is drop, turn itself a little bit during that time, and go straight into the target when the motor started to fire, even doesn't make that much turning. additionally, since i brought up this phenomenon, i also find out that the aim-120 under the fuselage can do a better job at close range than it's under the wing bc it's drop and fire instead of straight out, gives it more time to prepare to aim at the target.

however, when i see the payload for real world f-15, it says usually it's either 6 aim120 and 2 aim-9, or 4 aim-120, 2 aim-7 and 2 aim-9, it seems like the aim-7's are the optional missiles, the aim-9's are the must have. and i know the issue with the budge, aim-9 is cheaper than aim-7, since we don't have the money issue in lomac, is that mean aim-9 is useless. besides silence, i don't see other advantages of the aim-9. and at that close range, the aim-7 usually can make the kill before the bandit's reaction, so silence is not a that big issue either.

i know this is long, bc i have never posted in lomac forum b4, so i have too any questions. and i tried to put all detail of my opionion in it, so for people want to respond will have no question on the topic.

one more, what's the advantage of using the flood mode of aim-7 in close range combat instead of lockon by either vertical scan mode or the boresight mode. it limit the aim-7's off sight firing ability, and it's easier to lose sight of a bandit, but if you lock it on, you don't have to worry about visual contact.

thanks for any kind opinions, suggestions and thoughts! icon_biggrin.gif

 

personally, i like aim-9 very much. i think it's a really neat missile, and i hate to load a f-15 without 2 aim-9's, usually people load 4 aim-7 and 4 aim-120, i'm a artistic person, 8 long sticky missiles really don't pleasure the eyes. that's why i always like the real world payload, either 6 aim-120 and 2 aim-9 or 4 aim-120, 2 aim-7 and 2 aim-9, that way the 15 looks balanced. however, when i load those aim-9's, i always find out that most time i end up with 2 unused aim-9's, yes, those two are really taking my bvr missiles' spots. since the 7 can do much better job than 9 at close range, it's very hard for me to persuade myself to load those aim-9's again. that's why i posted this post, to discover the light of the aim-9's.

sorry it sounds stupid. maybe artists are like that. icon_wink.gif

i posted the same thread in lockon file forum, just thought here maybe will have more responces, just dont be surprise if you see the same thing in lockon file forum.

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The advantage of flood mode is that you don't have to take the time to acquire a lock.

 

As far as Sidewinders are concerned, I never carry them. There have been situations when I wished I had them, but generally, I try to avoid those situations. The 15 is at a disadvantage when in close combat with a Russian plane. It has nothing to compare to an R-73 and helmet mode.

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i know if you say get to target's 6 and will have a higher pk, but the aim-9's range is so short, usually when i got to target's 6 and the aim-9 is in the good position to fire, it's already in my gun range, it doesn't take any longer by using gun to make the kill.

 

Incredible, my words EXACTLY I have writen dozens of times here before.

 

The AIM-9 is indeed too short ranged. It burns for like 4 seconds like the real thing but its drag factor is too high in a straight line.

 

However I found out recently if my AMRAAM's missed and the enemy is closing fast, the Sparrow also misses frequently from a look down head on shots (its hard to keep lock at this stage). Time for wich the Sidwinder is ideal. But you realy need to time the launch realy, realy well because either it will fall short or it will be launched too late to cope with the angle off.

 

By comparison the R-73 is practicaly a BVR weapon. It has at least 3 times the range wich IMHO is hardly believable giving the similar size of both weapons.

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By comparison the R-73 is practicaly a BVR weapon. It has at least 3 times the range wich IMHO is hardly believable giving the similar size of both weapons.

 

And you do believe that the aim-9x has a 20 nm effective head-on range? Hmm, guess it's magic then.

Remember that the r-73 has a better motor, sleeker fin design, and no rollerons, and a different seeker for better energy management than the Aim-9M

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And you do believe that the aim-9x has a 20 nm effective head-on range? Hmm, guess it's magic then.

Remember that the r-73 has a better motor, sleeker fin design, and no rollerons, and a different seeker for better energy management than the Aim-9M

 

Uh ... what? Seeker for ... energy management?

The 73's seeker is equivalent if not of worse quality to the 9M's, in particular where it comes to ECCM.

 

The 73 is heavier than the 9M, IIRC, which means bigger rocket ... and that's the only thing that really affects range.

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Uh ... what? Seeker for ... energy management?

The 73's seeker is equivalent if not of worse quality to the 9M's, in particular where it comes to ECCM.

 

Yes, rather than just chasing the target, and correcting for every movement, the missile's seeker has a guidance logic, which lets the missile fly in a straight path, until the target is close, only then the missile will start "chasing" the aircraft, to minimize inertia loss at longer ranges.

 

And please remember which missile's seeker was disected over and over to become the Aim-9x's seeker head, especially for IRCM resistance. ECCM has less or no effect on IR guided missiles.

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Yeah ... we um, call that proportional navigation, present in EVERY missile's guidance :)

 

And er no, the seeker used for the AIM-9X is the same as the stinger FPA model ... The R-73 uses a reticle seeker (Same as AIM-9M!) - the two are worlds apart, and guess which one is more capable?

The R-73's seeker is nothing special at all. The only special thing about the R-73 is that it was the first high-OBA capable missile thanks to vectored thrust. That's it.

 

 

ECCM has effect on any ECM (expendable or non) ... ECCM/ECM is NOT limited to radar in its definition.

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