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Der_Fred
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I'd like all aircraft to be put through a set of flight maneuver tests before being released. The test list being recommended by the Devs and Public

 

The results of these tests announced in detail, publicly via video examples.

 

What say Yeee ?

:-)

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Wait, so what kind of purpose would this serve?

This post is protected by a pilot who has a serious lack of negotiating skills, but is absolute hell in a dogfight. If you do not belong here, please leave.

 

You have now been properly negotiated with.

 

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To what end?

 

I have a better idea... DEVS go ahead and release as usual and Der Fred can put them thru whatever tests he seems to deem appropriate and we will wait and see what his results are.. (All the while enjoying the module ourselves..)

"Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence."

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The idea is to test an aircraft in standard (and extreme) scenarios, as a test pilot would do (hopefully). The results be known to the public.

 

Here we are talking about the most 'perfect simulation' yet you question the 'test flights'.

 

I'd like to know I'm getting what I pay for, after all I've been told these aircraft data are from wind tunnel testing, and that the data is 'un-questionable' ?

 

:-)

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The idea is to test an aircraft in standard (and extreme) scenarios, as a test pilot would do (hopefully). The results be known to the public.

 

Here we are talking about the most 'perfect simulation' yet you question the 'test flights'.

 

I'd like to know I'm getting what I pay for, after all I've been told these aircraft data are from wind tunnel testing, and that the data is 'un-questionable' ?

 

:-)

And the "test pilot" ED assigns to to these flights is of course way more "trustworthy" than the developers, right? :doh:

 

If you believe that the aircrafts we get are incorrectly modelled ... then test them by yourself! YOU are the "testpilot" ... ;o)

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If the aircraft pass ED's quality checks, I have a good enough feeling that they will be fantastic. Haven't seen a bad module yet

 

No doubt ED's aircraft are excellent... top notch, I'm just questioning those irritating 'nooks and crannies' that are important, and won't go away :-)

 

Pushing the envelope .. so to speak ?

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What nooks and crannies are you referring to? What kind of tests do you want?

 

For one example, the pilot's virtual head is currently able to intersect the P-51's Plexiglas canopy while in first-person. It isn't merely cosmetic -- the pilot being able to move his head farther than he could in real life allows him to (unrealistically) see things which he should not be able to. Far from a game-breaker -- DCS: P-51D meets my standard & exceeds my expectations for a quality P.C. flight sim -- but annoying minor issues such as this one are, in fact, there. I discovered this "bug" (or "undesired feature," or whatever you wanna call it) on the first day that I installed P-51D -- back when it was still in beta -- so it doesn't take much of a test to locate this sort of issue.

 

That said, Der Fred does seem awfully adept at imagining up extra problems which don't seem to really exist.

: /


Edited by Echo38
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yet you question the 'test flights'.

 

No-one's questioning anything, much less claiming that the aircraft ED puts out are 100% flawless. But tests? Well, you're always free to run as many as you want if you acquire the modules legally.

 

But please do publish your results and findings if you do! Just don't forget to report your testing methodology thorougly if you want us to take them seriously...

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  • 2 weeks later...
Der Fred does seem awfully adept at imagining up extra problems which don't seem to really exist

I'm awfully skilled at that .. just to annoy the developers, no doubt :-)

 

Essentially the DCS FM models are very good.. BUT (funny how this thing appears outa nowhere ) although, I've been told here, that there's a lot of research and modelling gone into the aircraft, including wind tunnel stuff .. no doubt.

I find when you start pushing the 'envelope' on the P51 (my experience thus far)... the models are not looking good, from my experience in aircraft.

 

I'm not doubting current real P51 pilots testing here, but what I'm questioning is..

Have they/DCS really tested the aircraft in the envelope that I've mentioned.. and I can honestly say NO.. they haven't... purely because it's to dangerous, and a current P51 is very expensive to lose.

It is a risky maneuver.

 

So moving beyond this can we/DCS developers work on the past experience of P51 vets, who had nothing to lose by pulling these stunts and they had parachutes.

 

I must pull that video of the WW2 p51 vet who mentions this... in the next post - must just find it:-)

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Now moving on to the FW190.. there are many flying around...

 

I can guarantee you that not one of these pilots are prepared to even 'age' their prize possessions (and I would not too) just to prove a risky maneuver.

 

So it nothing more than a pipe dream, to get the real testing done... so ultimately we have to rely on WW2 and vet report interpretations.

 

I can tell you who has lots of experience in this, but you won't like it :-)

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I find when you start pushing the 'envelope' on the P51 (my experience thus far)... the models are not looking good, from my experience in aircraft.

 

You keep saying stuff like this, but I never see anything concrete, just grey-area stuff.

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There's been enough testing already I'm sure. It's been a two year long wait for another WWII DCS aircraft. At this rate it will take 10 years to finish WWII:1944

Also get real. Nobody is going to put a real 190 through extreme flying at risk to life and treasure just to settle the rivet-counting flight model arguments on these forums.

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ISo moving beyond this can we/DCS developers work on the past experience of P51 vets, who had nothing to lose by pulling these stunts and they had parachutes.

 

No, anecdotes from 70 years ago simply do NOT cut it.

 

ED have access to a few of the currently most experienced and skillful P-51D drivers that walk the face of the earth, that's as good as it's gonna get.

 

As for the Dora, i'm sure they will seek the counsel of pilots qualified to present some input.

 

If there are quantifiable errors in the flight model that can be changed within the scope of this simulation, you are free to submit a bug report.


Edited by sobek

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Uh, with no real D-9 flying anywhere in the world, we're stuck with "anecdotes from 70 years ago" anyway, hoping that FM algorithms will approximate behaviour of a real plane reasonably well. Numerical fluid mechanics modelling never gives 100% correct results, however, and there will be no options to cross-check and fine-tune the model (maybe with exception of engine startup procedure, because D-13 from FHC collection is still in running condition I believe).

 

All and all, we're going to fly an airplane, which flight model will be just "close" to the real thing (a term "educated guess" comes to mind), how close however, we'll never know. This, in my opinion, makes OP's request a bit pointless.

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There are Dora pilots still alive as well... I wouldnt down play their input.

 

There are indeed

 

Pic of me with a pilot called Eric at Duxford last weekend.

 

hASmXeH.jpg

 

Really was an amazing experience, I loved spending time with him and discussing the aircraft that he flew and his opinions on them and his attitude to live itself.

 

It was a really honor getting to pick his mind about some unique handling characteristics of those aircraft.

 

I still sit here and am in amazement about it

 

Pman

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There are indeed

 

Pic of me with a pilot called Eric at Duxford last weekend.

 

hASmXeH.jpg

 

Really was an amazing experience, I loved spending time with him and discussing the aircraft that he flew and his opinions on them and his attitude to live itself.

 

It was a really honor getting to pick his mind about some unique handling characteristics of those aircraft.

 

I still sit here and am in amazement about it

 

Pman

 

Nice picture Pete, must have been a good photographer :music_whistling:

 

Erich was very pleased with his visit and specifically mentioned how he enjoyed meeting you. I hope I'm not spilling any beans in saying that Erich also gave invaluable input to the development of the DCS Dora. More to come on this, I'm sure.

 

MAC

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