MP sessions, am I missing something?

[JulienBlanc]

2'o clock spike, high, 40km out. Turn in, return full lock, he is at 12.000km heading towards me slow. 500'ish (kmh that is )

 

I'm at a disadvantage, so I crank him right? Beam him while gaining little altitude ( currently at 2km ) My speed is at around 800km/h ( around cornering speed just in case ).

 

He is far beyond my 27-ER range. Just before max range for my 27, he fires I am forced into going full defensive, thus a Notch keeping him on my 3' I make a left turn putting him on my 10' relocating him on radar, 20km out still high and Poof, R-73 killed xxx.

 

Sooo, I beam him from start off, get into a notch position for a few seconds, turn hard left, beaming again, at less than 1km altitude ( no afterburner to minimize heat sig. ) and still a R-73 launched from max range hits me?

 

 

I've trained for months, on strategy approaches, maneuvers, theoretical data, Single player facing 1 to multiple AI's, seen hours and hours of content on these situations yet a Max range R-73 HITS ME?

Come on...

 

My WVR has improved a LOT, and I can see it has. Theory meets reality.

But BVR remains a mystery... no matter how much you study, no matter how much you practice I've come to think it's all bull* and just a game of luck and no-skill point & shoot asap within range.

 

as proof: I stepped into an F-15, pointed & shot and got a k/d of almost 3 to 1.

I've dodged more missiles in an F-15 than in a Su-27, supposedly more maneuverable.

Performing the same maneuvers.

[JulienBlanc]

It's starting to feel rediculous... The amount of time I've spent trying to improve and end up toasted 2 minutes after take off.

 

And I haven't even mentionned the one right before.. Take-off, Bullseye on 5' heading towards the sun just cruising to get into a better position ( sun behind me ), get shot after a minute?

 

 

---

 

It's fun when you can actually say you've put up a good fight. Even if you get shot down.

 

This is the total opposite.

Edited July 1, 2014 by JulienBlanc

[GGTharos]

I've trained for months, on strategy approaches, maneuvers, theoretical data, Single player facing 1 to multiple AI's, seen hours and hours of content on these situations yet a Max range R-73 HITS ME?

Come on...

 

Did he had a friend at low altitude that you didn't see because you were staring up? At 20km an R-73 won't even lock on to you, I believe not even in AB, though I could be wrong. If it does, it's going down-hill so it'll keep plenty of energy.

 

My WVR has improved a LOT, and I can see it has. Theory meets reality.

But BVR remains a mystery... no matter how much you study, no matter how much you practice I've come to think it's all bull* and just a game of luck and no-skill point & shoot asap within range.

 

Maybe you didn't really train that much :)

 

as proof: I stepped into an F-15, pointed & shot and got a k/d of almost 3 to 1.

 

Maybe that's because the opposition didn't train quite as much? There's peeps out here that fight eagles with their flankers and they do well.

 

I've dodged more missiles in an F-15 than in a Su-27, supposedly more maneuverable.

Performing the same maneuvers.

 

And what relevance does 'maneuverability' have when it comes to dodging missiles, when both airframes are 9-g capable?

 

There is a lot of theoretical BVR text on these forums - you can search for it and read it.

 

But first and foremost, I see no tracks here, no tacview, nothing that would help you and anyone looking at your complaint help analyze what actually happened.

 

'He did this, I did that' doesn't tell me anything.

[Stuge]

20km out still high and Poof, R-73 killed xxx.

 

Maybe you just missed another guy who was firing the R73? :) A track would be interesting. R73 shouldn't be able to reach a maneuvering target at 20km range.

[JulienBlanc]

That's exactly my thought... I had allies left, in front and home base on my right when I faced him... The R-73 came from above 100% sure, as the name, altitude and location matched the player that got the kill...

 

I've had no success in installing Tacview, ( it won't record DCS ) eventhough I have followed all the instructions of installation ^^''

 

I've mostly been looking at replays of single player missions I created everytime I flew them to get feedback

 

(not sure if that's possible in MP )

[Maximus_Lazarus]

2'o clock spike, high, 40km out. Turn in, return full lock, he is at 12.000km heading towards me slow. 500'ish (kmh that is )

 

I'm at a disadvantage, so I crank him right? Beam him while gaining little altitude ( currently at 2km ) My speed is at around 800km/h ( around cornering speed just in case ).

 

He is far beyond my 27-ER range. Just before max range for my 27, he fires I am forced into going full defensive, thus a Notch keeping him on my 3' I make a left turn putting him on my 10' relocating him on radar, 20km out still high and Poof, R-73 killed xxx.

 

Sooo, I beam him from start off, get into a notch position for a few seconds, turn hard left, beaming again, at less than 1km altitude ( no afterburner to minimize heat sig. ) and still a R-73 launched from max range hits me?

 

 

I've trained for months, on strategy approaches, maneuvers, theoretical data, Single player facing 1 to multiple AI's, seen hours and hours of content on these situations yet a Max range R-73 HITS ME?

Come on...

 

My WVR has improved a LOT, and I can see it has. Theory meets reality.

But BVR remains a mystery... no matter how much you study, no matter how much you practice I've come to think it's all bull* and just a game of luck and no-skill point & shoot asap within range.

 

as proof: I stepped into an F-15, pointed & shot and got a k/d of almost 3 to 1.

I've dodged more missiles in an F-15 than in a Su-27, supposedly more maneuverable.

Performing the same maneuvers.

 

You weren't even in range for for your ER to get launch authorize, yet you go "full defensive" when he fires a missile ?

 

I don't think you needed to do that. Instead, you should just have rofl'd at him and realize he is super scared and probably a nerb.

 

NOW YOU HAVE ADVANTAGE ! :mad:

 

But seriously,

 

What kind of plane was attacking you ?

What was the distance between you and him, when you got the launch warning ?

 

That R73 must have been coming from another plane. And i'm pretty sure that first missile that made you go defensive was also from that other plane. (Not the one you were tracking)

 

Watch the tacview and you'll find out you were never in any kind of danger from the jet you engaged.

You got smoked by a second bandit.

[Maximus_Lazarus]

Oh and you NEED to install tacview man. Set it to record "DCS world" . Click on the globe thing and tick "DCS world flights" .

[Falcon_S]

Short answer Julien - Bad Situational Awareness

[JulienBlanc]

And what relevance does 'maneuverability' have when it comes to dodging missiles, when both airframes are 9-g capable?

 

 

(assuming) you could potentially turn harder/faster with less velocity loss, hoping that would give me some kind of advantage and little more time to react to incoming threats?

[GGTharos]

The other guy was at 12km altitude, so, yeah, he'll get LA way way before the low guy does.

 

You weren't even in range for for your ER to get launch authorize, yet you go "full defensive" when he fires a missile ?

 

I don't think you needed to do that. Instead, you should just have rofl'd at him and realize he is super scared and probably a nerb.

[GGTharos]

Which plane turns harder/faster with less velocity loss? It ain't the flanker.

 

On the other hand, it still doesn't matter, the difference isn't big enough at low altitude. It's all about being at corner.

 

(assuming) you could potentially turn harder/faster with less velocity loss, hoping that would give me some kind of advantage and little more time to react to incoming threats?

[Maximus_Lazarus]

The other guy was at 12km altitude, so, yeah, he'll get LA way way before the low guy does.

 

Sorry , must have misunderstood that ... he wrote 12.000 km, so i figured he meant angels 12 because 12.000 km would be... way out in space

[JulienBlanc]

An su27 most likely, the RWR signals matched the person I was watching... So far I had no reason to doubt...

 

My SA: I keep it simple. Ever now and then I do a 360 deg orbit to have an idea/picture of everyone around me. This time was no exception. I had allies, left, in front and home base on my right.

[JulienBlanc]

Sorry , must have misunderstood that ... he wrote 12.000 km, so i figured he meant angels 12 because 12.000 km would be... way out in space

 

my bad :x

[GGTharos]

Again ... track/tacview or it didn't happen. There's really not much anyone can say without seeing the fight :)

 

An su27 most likely, the RWR signals matched the person I was watching... So far I had no reason to doubt...

 

My SA: I keep it simple. Ever now and then I do a 360 deg orbit to have an idea/picture of everyone around me. This time was no exception. I had allies, left, in front and home base on my right.

[Stuge]

 

And I haven't even mentionned the one right before.. Take-off, Bullseye on 5' heading towards the sun just cruising to get into a better position ( sun behind me ), get shot after a minute

 

Someone took advantage of the fact that many people(including you) feel safe near their base, after takeoff, and assume (incorrectly) that the enemy should come from one direction (for example bullseye). Expect the unexpected! Surprise is often key to victory in air combat.

 

It's fun when you can actually say you've put up a good fight. Even if you get shot down.

 

The nature of air combat involves "unfair" fights. If you want fair, go openly one on one with an opponent of similar skill level that you know :)

[Falcon_S]

An su27 most likely, the RWR signals matched the person I was watching... So far I had no reason to doubt...

 

My SA: I keep it simple. Ever now and then I do a 360 deg orbit to have an idea/picture of everyone around me. This time was no exception. I had allies, left, in front and home base on my right.

 

If you are killed or hit - your SA is bad (in that flight).

[JulienBlanc]

Tacview: followed all the steps ( admin rights ) installation + "record flights from DCS world" the little icon on the lower right corner even said "from now on everyting will be recorded", yet every time I fly and go back to it, I still end up with a blank page...unfortunately

[JulienBlanc]

If you are killed or hit - your SA is bad (in that flight).

 

Such constructiveness I feel your comment has really helped me out here, I feel I have gained lightyears of experience right there.:music_whistling:

[Maximus_Lazarus]

Tacview: followed all the steps ( admin rights ) installation + "record flights from DCS world" the little icon on the lower right corner even said "from now on everyting will be recorded", yet every time I fly and go back to it, I still end up with a blank page...unfortunately

 

oh dude, you first have to watch the replay IN GAME.

 

Then tacview will record that replay

 

Servers block direct exporting of data, to prevent cheating.

 

It's a pain in the *** , but really worth it. Afterwords watching the track you'll be like "omg seriously ?!" . Then later on the picture you have in your head will start to look more like the tacviews, hopefully :D

 

So first, fly . Try to taxi as little as possible so the track won't get corrupt.

Then watch the "replay" in game. You can speed it up

Then watch the tacview and be amazed at how different things went down compared to what you thought happened.

 

 

p.s: It should record single player missions just fine by the way. Only the multiplayer flights should be empty

Edited July 1, 2014 by Maximus_Lazarus

[Stuge]

Tacview: followed all the steps ( admin rights ) installation + "record flights from DCS world" the little icon on the lower right corner even said "from now on everyting will be recorded", yet every time I fly and go back to it, I still end up with a blank page...unfortunately

 

Multiplayer servers can block direct tacview recording.

 

Replay a multiplayer track (you find them in your users/yourname/saved games/dcs folder or somthing like that, NOT the game folder itself!!)

 

Tacview should record this when you replay. You can accelerate time through the replay if you want, but you need to sit through it.

 

Keep in mind: replays can have bugs, they do not always work properly all the way.

[srky]

Tacview: followed all the steps ( admin rights ) installation + "record flights from DCS world" the little icon on the lower right corner even said "from now on everyting will be recorded", yet every time I fly and go back to it, I still end up with a blank page...unfortunately

If you are talking about multiplayer missions -those need to be replayed as a track first, only then Tacview will create acmi file. Also, check the set location for the acmi (output) files, make sure it's the correct folder you are trying to read files from.

[JulienBlanc]

Someone took advantage of the fact that many people(including you) feel safe near their base, after takeoff, and assume (incorrectly) that the enemy should come from one direction (for example bullseye). Expect the unexpected! Surprise is often key to victory in air combat.

 

 

 

The nature of air combat involves "unfair" fights. If you want fair, go openly one on one with an opponent of similar skill level that you know :)

 

I've learned that lesson now hahaha, there is no safe place once you get up there... No time to finish of the sandwich! :lol:

 

I agree "unfair" fights happen, I don't mind them, from the moment it becomes a fight it's fun. When you just seemlessly blow up ( not in this particular case ) I don't really call that a fight... There's nothing to be learned... except from well... you shoulda just ... not have been there..

[Stuge]

There's nothing to be learned... except from well... you shoulda just ... not have been there..

 

Except you could've looked around more carefully.

 

Or maybe you could have been more stealthy in your actions?

 

:D

[JulienBlanc]

Multiplayer servers can block direct tacview recording.

 

Replay a multiplayer track (you find them in your users/yourname/saved games/dcs folder or somthing like that, NOT the game folder itself!!)

 

Tacview should record this when you replay. You can accelerate time through the replay if you want, but you need to sit through it.

 

Keep in mind: replays can have bugs, they do not always work properly all the way.

 

 

 

I've noticed those bugs in replays :p ( single player mission where I win vs AI, rewatch track, I lose and crash somehow )

 

I would have liked it to work in Single player before attempting to use it for MP, but unfortunately it just doesn't record :/

 

( replaying last MP session with Tacview on just to check again )