About the power of land vehicles.

[gachatar]

Did you do something weird to the machine guns of tanks and other land vehicles in the last few months?

I'm getting completely destroyed in my A-10C whenever I want to take something out with guns, something that didn't happen at all before. I started testing in the first quick start mission for the A-10C, and the 3 tank pack (3x T-52) is shooting me down every time on my first attack run. Of course, I killed the SAM and the Shilka before, it's only the tanks there. When I last played a few months ago, I could easily take them out one by one.

 

Now, out of 4 tries, all 4 times I started losing systems, usually an engine on my first attack run. Of course, I attack from behind and all that. They seem to have a much faster reaction time, and also they seem to do more damage.

 

IFVs and APCs are even worse, they seem to shoot me down almost as easily as a AAA.

[CallsignFrosty]

I haven't been brave enough to get close to a BTR80 in quite a while, you are right, they seem very OP

[T_A]

If i attack a btr or tank with guns its with full knowing its my last target for the run , as i will be limping home for rearm and repair after that.

 

that top 50cal they got seems like it has radar guidance, maybe i should try jammer next run lol

[Svend_Dellepude]

Sounds like you guys are too close and too low. Stay high and fast and use the gun in steep dive angles.

[Maverick-X]

They are quite powerfull, especially BMP2's with 20mm autocannons...

However there is no problem: simply go into a quite steep dive, shoot a burst of a second on your target at about 2nm and the bugger is toast, you are not.

 

Getting it on with tanks is not that easy as their armour is thicker, you need to get quite close (1-1.5nm) and shoot a long burst of about 2s. This usually works and the fact that the tanks have 12.7mm guns makes it a bit more bareable to get that close.

[Aginor]

My gun run tactics:

- run in at 15,000 ft.

- when almost above them, go into a steep dive, cut engines

- start shooting once you are solidly in range, shoot several hundred rounds.

- start pulling out at 6,500-6,000 ft. Don't go below 4,500 if possible, otherwise they might hit you.

- don't fly straight away. Jink a bit.

 

You will be able to destroy only a few objects in that mission, but it is considerably safer.

 

I think something similar is also done in RL to avoid small arms fire and such things.

[WinterH]

IFVs and APCs are even worse, they seem to shoot me down almost as easily as a AAA.

 

Weelll... in my experience with FC and DCS, AAA takes a backseat when there's a BMP-2 around :P

 

They seriously are more dangerous than Shilka or Tunguska's guns in the sim. Only gun based threat I hold in higher regard is Gepard.

 

I believe it is a difficult thing to make realistic AAA for sims, at least my experience with many sims seems to be they either are :

- Damn snipers with Jedi training (DCS ground units, IL-2 tail gunners etc, the oooold F-18 Korea)

- Present much less of a threat than they should (various flavors of Falcon 4)

 

That said, I didn't notice 12.7 or 14.5mm guns to be more dangerous in latest patch. Granted, I don't fly too often for last 2-3 months, when I do, they seem to be the business as usual.

 

But the BMP-2 is... evil... :D

[Aginor]

Oh wow, just you mentioning Il-2 tail gunners made me angry again. I hated those guys so much, with their "**** IT, I'M HITTING WITH THE FIRST SHOT"-attitude.

 

About the accuracy of the rest of the AAA:

 

I really miss the good old barrage flak in DCS. I hope we get a German eighty-eight FlaK in DCS:WW2, so I can use it extensively in modern missions. At the moment circling around in your A-10C with 150 knots at 15000ft makes you invulnerable against AAA and IR SAMs and you can just designate targets and drop ordnance like in a training mission. In RL you would be an easy target for an experienced FlaK crew, even without radar guidance.

 

The Gepard is a joke compared to the real thing. It fires almost like a Shilka, which isn't what it is doing in real life. Although I understand why it is the way it is in DCS.

Actually modern ground units are somewhat accurate with their guns, in DCSW they are even better. But I think it is still balanced, given the fact that DCSW is an approximation. One unit in DCSW represents several in real life. The numbers are what counts. In real life there isn't a Gepard guarding a handful of tanks. It's four to sixteen Gepards. driving around somewhere (or just standing around camouflaged), putting a barrage in every direction you could fly at that moment, so regardless how you jink, once they start firing you will be hit.

 

 

(SAMs are the same btw.. The DCSW Patriot is a joke compared to the RL variant, and I suppose that's true for most of the others as well, I just don't know them good enough to tell.)

 

But the same is true for aircraft. In DCSW there are just a few aircraft flying around in a conflict. So there is a balance. And I think DCSW does it right.

Falcon BMS is also ok, although they fail to hit you most of the time. If the mission is designed realistically they have a halfway realistic chance to hit you (which isn't that high actually. How many sorties were there over Baghdad in Desert Storm, and how many fast movers were hit by AAA?)

 

If a BMP hits you in DCSW you're doing it wrong. Just like in RL. I've been doing it wrong for a long time in the sim, I know what I'm talking about. :D

Edited July 3, 2014 by Aginor