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MiG-21Bis Integration to DCS World?


CobaltDragon
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I'll start by saying, this is not a thread begging for a release date or more pics or something. I can't find the answer to this anywhere so I thought I'd make a thread if anyone else was wondering the same thing.

 

My question, purely out of interest, is what does it take to get this working in DCS to a state where it is fit for sale? (Apart from the obvious MiG-21 RWR symbols in multiplayer, things like that.)

I'd just like to know, roughly, what happens after the development is done. Between that time period and the release I can imagine would be stressful for testers and programmers alike.

 

If this is something I should not have touched upon, or it's been answered already, by all means delete this post because although a long time DCS customer, I am still relatively new to the forums.

 

Thanks!

-Cobalt

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Well, Dolphin posted that the mig had gone to ED for QC and all the rest a couple of weeks ago.

 

I reckon if you take that date and then wait for release, that'll be the answer! I imagine there's a bit of backwards and forwards going on between LN and ED.

 

I'm hoping for something today.

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I would think, something like this:

 

  • General QC to make sure, it is worth bearing the "DCS: ..." brand
  • AI aircraft integration. The definition of the AI aircraft must not interfere with existing AI aircrafts, etc.
  • DRM integration to make it "sellable" via the ED store. Includes probably compiling a .EXE that properly interacts with Starforce DRM. Preparing serial number generator, testing it all, etc.
  • Preparing ED store. Shop detail page, download page, etc.
  • Perhaps preparing and testing a DCS build "1.2.8 update xxx" that contains AI aircraft (might include other stuff, too, like bug fixes ... so patch notes would also be necessary)
  • Double checking everything once more ... as this is the first time a 3rd party dev is to be integrated into DCS (Belsimtek was probably more like regular ED developers "just getting their paychecks from an other empoyer")

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I would think, something like this:

 

  • General QC to make sure, it is worth bearing the "DCS: ..." brand
  • AI aircraft integration. The definition of the AI aircraft must not interfere with existing AI aircrafts, etc.
  • DRM integration to make it "sellable" via the ED store. Includes probably compiling a .EXE that properly interacts with Starforce DRM. Preparing serial number generator, testing it all, etc.
  • Preparing ED store. Shop detail page, download page, etc.
  • Perhaps preparing and testing a DCS build "1.2.8 update xxx" that contains AI aircraft (might include other stuff, too, like bug fixes ... so patch notes would also be necessary)
  • Double checking everything once more ... as this is the first time a 3rd party dev is to be integrated into DCS (Belsimtek was probably more like regular ED developers "just getting their paychecks from an other empoyer")

 

Nice synopsis!

:thumbup:

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  • 1 month later...

It is just like Apple Store, where each app submitted has to be tested before release to ensure good quality. Yet, it is good to have such standard policy in place so as to attract more modders to enrich DCS Integrated Battlefield in the years to come. I don't mind paying a bit more actually if it is so crafted as displayed here.

 

I would imagine that in time, we will have a great number of aircrafts in DCS World. As a matter of fact, I have been dreaming about this for a real long time. A while ago, there was one Nova World where F-22, MiG-29 and F-16 can fight against each other online. Then I thought, if only there would be more aircrafts supported.

 

Another brand has produced many many aircrafts and lots of modded aircrafts but it lacks a space where everyone can join up to play.

 

I really look forward to the MiG-21 and more as good as this one in the near future. Thanks for the great work.

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It is just like Apple Store, where each app submitted has to be tested before release to ensure good quality. Yet, it is good to have such standard policy in place so as to attract more modders to enrich DCS Integrated Battlefield in the years to come. I don't mind paying a bit more actually if it is so crafted as displayed here.

 

I would imagine that in time, we will have a great number of aircrafts in DCS World. As a matter of fact, I have been dreaming about this for a real long time. A while ago, there was one Nova World where F-22, MiG-29 and F-16 can fight against each other online. Then I thought, if only there would be more aircrafts supported.

 

Another brand has produced many many aircrafts and lots of modded aircrafts but it lacks a space where everyone can join up to play.

 

I really look forward to the MiG-21 and more as good as this one in the near future. Thanks for the great work.

 

The problem is Device is that this process doesn't attract modders to come to this environment. Think about , FSX and Xplane has 1000s of modders precisely because those platforms are so open and inviting , where as DCS portrays a very closed attitude. ED takes complete control of everything and meters it out at what can only be described as a snails pace.

 

Only one 'modder' has released anything (Belsimtek) and lo and behold they are not a 3rd party modder per se but a partner. Other 3rd party mods seem to be in a virtual holding pattern with one of them being DONE for a long time.

 

Information is very sparse , indications (I want to say promises but can't) are given only to be changed over and over again. (Think preview copies to streamers here, May-Jun, Mar 31st, Soon last july, Not a long delay in early Mar).

 

And of course ALL indications are that these addons will ALL be pay addons, I highly doubt we will ever see a free addon by a 3rd party for DCS.

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But the flip side to that is that there is an ENORMOUS amount of garbage for "open" platforms such as FSX (some of it quite pretty and expensive too), with very few people producing genuinely good study level aircraft.

 

For every PMDG/A2A Accusim/FSLabs/Majestic plane there's a whole host of planes of lower (and sometimes very dubious) fidelity, many of which may look like their namesake but are basically the default systems and flight model with a pretty skin on them.

 

Having recently re-entered the world of FSX (admittedly via P3D), I was surprised to find the difference in the number of genuinely study sim level aircraft available much smaller than you would have expected if you just looked at the number of planes on sale.

 

DCS may be a walled garden, but what a beautiful walled garden it is....


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But the flip side to that is that there is an ENORMOUS amount of garbage for "open" platforms such as FSX (some of it quite pretty and expensive too), with very few people producing genuinely good study level aircraft.

 

For every PMDG/A2A Accusim/FSLabs/Majestic plane there's a whole host of planes of lower (and sometimes very dubious) fidelity, many of which may look like their namesake but are basically the default systems and flight model with a pretty skin on them.

 

Having recently re-entered the world of FSX (admittedly via P3D), I was surprised to find the difference in the number of genuinely study sim level aircraft available much smaller than you would have expected if you just looked at the number of planes on sale.

 

DCS may be a walled garden, but what a beautiful walled garden it is....

 

I agree, that there is a fair amount of garbage there, no doubt IF you only look at aircraft, now look at scenery, weather addons, ATC addons and many other enhancements that you can get for Fsx/Xplane/P3d that you will never get for DCS.

 

The walled garden analogy is very good but the problem is there is only 4 types of flowers and you will only ever see flowers, no bushes, scrubs , ponds or wildlife. AND you will always have to pay for any additional flowers that might appear.

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I agree, that there is a fair amount of garbage there, no doubt IF you only look at aircraft, now look at scenery, weather addons, ATC addons and many other enhancements that you can get for Fsx/Xplane/P3d that you will never get for DCS.

 

The walled garden analogy is very good but the problem is there is only 4 types of flowers and you will only ever see flowers, no bushes, scrubs , ponds or wildlife. AND you will always have to pay for any additional flowers that might appear.

 

No, the analogy still works for addons. Unlike DCS, FSX is a dead codebase and showing it's age and needs addons to bring it up to scratch, FSX will still be FSX in 10 years time, P3D may be faster and cleaner but I doubt LM will worry about Scenery, Weather and ATC when anyone who cares will swap it out, DCS is still actively developed, perhaps not at a pace we would ideally like, but it will grow.

 

Terrain, outside of ORBX and a few airport makers, there is an awful lot of dross still for sale. Most of the ATC addons are limited to airline traffic only due to engine limitations (want to step outside your flight plan and still have ATC work properly? No can do sir). Now weather is the one area I can genuinely say FSX is ahead, I wish DCS could compete with my REX weather engine.

 

As for payware/freeware, *shrug*. Quality is worth paying for. And DCS birds are very much quality.

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I have just found this impressive video, not sure whether it is an in-game recording though

.

 

I think that is FSX, do you folks know does it mean FSX Acceleration, if so I have it and I really want to buy that F-15.

 

Back to the original discussion, here forms my opinion: the last couple of days especially the weekends, I have done a little research work. I have also spent 15 minutes on DCSW because I have purchased my new HOTAS, last one was a Thrust Master HOTAS back in 1999 when Falcon 4 came out. I gave it to a friend coz it's too big for my hands. My new HOTAS is Saitek X52 by the way, it's not brilliant, but Okay.

 

What impressed me when playing DCSW is that I find the entire environment being a true war theatre, comparable to Falcon 4 back in the old days. Of course, the graphics is way better now. DCS excels in the graphics department as the original Flanker 2.0 did. More importantly, DCSW gives me a feeling that its AI capabilities and qualities are rather high. Some AI exhibit a handicapped wingman who never listens to your commands. And from the AI, you see real battles, in the air, on the ground and over the sea. More realistically, not every Alamo hits their target even it is a slow flying Apache or A-10. That makes sense, because today, we have IR deterrent measure which intelligently divert IR missiles. Not to mention that the game models partial damage in to great details, bird strikes like small little holes all over the airframe of the Flanker and it's still flying coz no major damages.

 

But then on the other front, FSX F-15E video shows equally impressive visual ate on weather, highly rendered landscape and that sense of speed. BUT, it has no combat simulation, that's is like a well baked cake served without custard or a tasty Yorkshire pudding without some essential ingredients.

 

So it's really debatable, but I am willing to buy the FSX F-15E and the IRIS F-22. Equally, I am interested in the forthcoming F-18 and definitely my beloved MiG-21bis. I believe I will spend more time in the Hornet and Fishbed for real combat experience yet, on and off flying the F-15E and F-22 to get the real feel of those MFD and buttons, not ot mention the real world scenery which might take me to Sweden and Norway Alps. :;

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No, the analogy still works for addons. Unlike DCS, FSX is a dead codebase and showing it's age and needs addons to bring it up to scratch, FSX will still be FSX in 10 years time, P3D may be faster and cleaner but I doubt LM will worry about Scenery, Weather and ATC when anyone who cares will swap it out, DCS is still actively developed, perhaps not at a pace we would ideally like, but it will grow.

 

Terrain, outside of ORBX and a few airport makers, there is an awful lot of dross still for sale. Most of the ATC addons are limited to airline traffic only due to engine limitations (want to step outside your flight plan and still have ATC work properly? No can do sir). Now weather is the one area I can genuinely say FSX is ahead, I wish DCS could compete with my REX weather engine.

 

As for payware/freeware, *shrug*. Quality is worth paying for. And DCS birds are very much quality.

 

Now think if DCS was more open what could be done. I mean we are how many years on in DCS and there is still only 1 map. WHY????, because ED has decided they want a closed system. We have had the 'tool's to create aircraft for a number of years and only 3 have been released all by the same company.

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Did you ever take a look, at how FSX aircrafts are "coded"? ridicolous

The FSX flight model is arcade you could go play GTA it's close to it, my opinion.

But I have to say that the scenerys look better and the wheater systems seems to be way ahead of DCS. (Switzerland pro, I love it) But look at all the garbage that was sold for the same prices DCS stuff is sold. My biggest fault was the IRIS MiG-29 (FS9), bad textures, horrible cockpit, absolutely no systems modeled.

FSX doesn't simulates engines, hydraulics or anything, I flew the F-86 on the back last evening... Do it, observe it, do the same in FSX and compare the effects! It is absolutely no problem to this even with a 747 ...

 

I played FS9 for a very long time, I preordered FSX and was disappointed by it but anyway kept playing both of them until I discovered LOMAC and later when BS came out, I wasn't touching it very often and since the A-10C beta, with a glimpse on Nevada (ah the memories=) ) it died for me....

 

At last: I demand a shrubbery for the DCS garden!

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Acer1961, That is a false conclusion. ED has working on your new EDGE engine, and the SDK based on the new engine wait to release. The Partners and 3rd Paties (BSK, and VEAO) has plan to new maps, and ED NTTR / Nevada has complete.

 

The old RRG Studios was a evaluation version of SDK and was making Normandy Theater (now ED need complete them).

 

Over the release modules BSK release 3 on two years, VEAO await clear legal issues to release VEAO Hawk (February was the release date), LeatherNeck (after last year restructuration), await DCS 2.0 to release Mig-21Bis (he has moving to new proyect)and ED release 3 modules (P-51D, CA, FC3) on 2 year DCS: W release and continue update them and FC3 aircrafts with new features.

 

Meanwhile, The Parther and 3rd Parties working on 9 new proyects to that late year, 2015 and subsequences, and the number growing and growing with the time.

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Acer1961, That is a false conclusion. ED has working on your new EDGE engine, and the SDK based on the new engine wait to release. The Partners and 3rd Paties (BSK, and VEAO) has plan to new maps, and ED NTTR / Nevada has complete.

 

The old RRG Studios was a evaluation version of SDK and was making Normandy Theater (now ED need complete them).

 

Over the release modules BSK release 3 on two years, VEAO await clear legal issues to release VEAO Hawk (February was the release date), LeatherNeck (after last year restructuration), await DCS 2.0 to release Mig-21Bis (he has moving to new proyect)and ED release 3 modules (P-51D, CA, FC3) on 2 year DCS: W release and continue update them and FC3 aircrafts with new features.

 

Meanwhile, The Parther and 3rd Parties working on 9 new proyects to that late year, 2015 and subsequences, and the number growing and growing with the time.

 

With all due respect Dragon, how many years have people been saying the same thing about maps, aircraft etc going to be released, Edge is coming this year, Nevada coming this year, Mig 21 coming this year or is it 'soon' now. I have frankly lost count. I have purchased the Belsimtek stuff and don't regret it but , when you keep flying over the same map and it all still looks and feels the same. No campaign to speak of for these new addons etc.

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AFAIK building a map by a 3rd party has been possible. IIRC thats' how NTTR started off many years ago.

 

And yet no one has done it , meanwhile almost the entire world is out for FSX. I wonder why that is.

 

There is an addon maker for FSX that made inquiries to moving their stuff over to DCS and what they found was so repulsive to them they decided it wasn't worth their time and effort and staying with FSX. And I am referring to the NDA that 3rd party devs have to sign.

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There was a Terrain Development Guide and Tools, for Flaming Cliffs 2 IIRC.

 

There's no Point Making a Terrain for the Current Engine, wait for the New one.

 

Now Back to MIG-21 Awesome-Sauce.....

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Think about , FSX and Xplane has 1000s of modders precisely because those platforms are so open and inviting , where as DCS portrays a very closed attitude. ED takes complete control of everything and meters it out at what can only be described as a snails pace.

ED don't "take complete control of everything". Quality control is not the same as dictating how the team will work. ED have no input on that whatsoever.

 

We build an aircraft for DCS however we like (but obviously it must work with the sim). When we're ready, we present it to ED for them to check and ensure it meets their standards, then if everything is OK, it gets released.

 

There is no doubting the first couple of modules are taking longer than hoped to get released, but everyone is still finding their way with this. It's new to ED as well, and they have to figure out how to fit us in with what they're doing. It's for the best in the long term.

 

Best regards,

Tango.

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