FW-190 Pre-purchase ???

[NineLine]

That's assuming ED decides to continue with the KS rewards promised by RRG. They may turn around and say "Guys we can't do all six for $40 we'll go out of business, you get only one flyable for $40 along with the map". While as a backer I'm hoping ED is able to take on the KS reward obligations, to be honest I can't blame them for saying "Sorry that was someone else's promise not ours".

 

My pledge amount would have gotten me the DCS World Dora, but at the moment I'm not actually expecting to receive a free key for it unless Wags/ED says otherwise. Like Sith said, we just have to wait for the update and cross our fingers.

 

Exactly, lets wait for the next update... its not like the Dora is available today to fly.

[upupandaway]

The whole reward system has been in place for quite some time now. There is no definitive answer to anything yet? I can´t help but think that ED knew already what was coming back then when they set it up on their homepage...

[NRG-Vampire]

So basically if you pay only $40 like me and get the flyables. That is only for DCS WWII. DCS World is a separate sim. Thats a smart move ED. Good job! I am glad because that is the only way to get the financials to work out.

 

i dont like that idea and i dont like the divided "world" - that was the worst idea of rrg but i hope ed will bring back the "only one world" idea

should be better to keep everything in dcs-world

wwii should be a part-module, a "theatres of war" for all aircrafts and vehicles both for sp and mp

[Charly_Owl]

I would like to know too, being a 250+ $ backer.

 

[Witchking]

^^wait for official news!right now thats only assumptions or rumors

 

Notice that it says DCS WWII.

 

Other higher backers have DCS World.

 

ED should do this. It is a smarter strategy. They just can't afford to give away so much development for free.

[ishtmail]

Exactly, lets wait for the next update... its not like the Dora is available today to fly.

 

I hate to argue, but according to Wags' last update on the matter (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=125454):

 

Eagle Dynamics though will be continuing its development and do our best to honor Kickstarter backer commitments.

 

I can see where honoring physical rewards like Tshirts or printed manuals may be an issue for ED, since it presents additional cost for ED.

 

However, Alpha access and serials for DCS:World modules cost ED nothing extra, and they are fully capable of honoring those rewards, by simply giving us the serials and alpha access.

 

 

EDIT: I posted a Support Ticket about this matter (specifically, Alpha access and Dora for DCS:World). Will see if they answer.

Edited June 26, 2014 by ishtmail

[NineLine]

I hate to argue, but according to Wags' last update on the matter (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=125454):

 

 

 

I can see where honoring physical rewards like Tshirts or printed manuals may be an issue for ED, since it presents additional cost for ED.

 

However, Alpha access and serials for DCS:World modules cost ED nothing extra, and they are fully capable of honoring those rewards, by simply giving us the serials and alpha access.

 

How does 3 planes for a dollar or 6 for 40, and so on not cost ED anything, when it wasnt ED's deal to do so in the first place... again WAIT FOR OFFICIAL WORD.

[ishtmail]

How does 3 planes for a dollar or 6 for 40, and so on not cost ED anything, when it wasnt ED's deal to do so in the first place... again WAIT FOR OFFICIAL WORD.

 

Because those planes will be developed in any case.

Because ED promised to try and honor pledges from Kickstarter.

 

Like I said: I can see where they can't honor pledges that present additional cost for ED. But serials for modules they will have in any case, that doesn't cost them anything (except me not paying extra money for those modules as they're released).

 

One important factor though:

If ED chooses to NOT honor kickstarter rewards and pledges whenever possible (even though Wags explicitly promised that they would do so), how many people will opt to purchase the modules outright? I for certain know that if I don't get the 6 flyable airplanes I pledged for, I won't be buying the modules separately. So, ED won't be getting any money from me in any case, they'll just have a bitter customer who'll be pissed at them.

 

 

So, they better deliver what we pledged for, at least the digital content. There are only 2500 backers of DCS:WW2, a very small portion of the full customer base ED has for these products. Honoring 2500 backers is nothing compared to the income ED will have with the full DCS:WW2 release.

 

 

 

EDIT: also, for $1 you only get ONE flyable airplane (which was promised as 'free for all'). You get two airplanes at $20, three airplanes at $30 and all six at $40 or higher.

Edited June 26, 2014 by ishtmail

[NineLine]

Wags said they would do their best to honour the Kickstarter. But I think most sensible people can see it was ill conceived from the start... I expect change, but we need to wait for official word, all this is assumption based right now.

 

 

Because those planes will be developed in any case.

Because ED promised to try and honor pledges from Kickstarter.

 

Like I said: I can see where they can't honor pledges that present additional cost for ED. But serials for modules they will have in any case, that doesn't cost them anything (except me not paying extra money for those modules as they're released).

 

One important factor though:

If ED chooses to NOT honor kickstarter rewards and pledges whenever possible (even though Wags explicitly promised that they would do so), how many people will opt to purchase the modules outright? I for certain know that if I don't get the 6 flyable airplanes I pledged for, I won't be buying the modules separately. So, ED won't be getting any money from me in any case, they'll just have a bitter customer who'll be pissed at them.

 

 

So, they better deliver what we pledged for, at least the digital content. There are only 2500 backers of DCS:WW2, a very small portion of the full customer base ED has for these products. Honoring 2500 backers is nothing compared to the income ED will have with the full DCS:WW2 release.

[NineLine]

EDIT: also, for $1 you only get ONE flyable airplane (which was promised as 'free for all'). You get two airplanes at $20, three airplanes at $30 and all six at $40 or higher.

 

1 dollar got you 3 aircraft as far as I understood the riddle that was Ilya's Kickstarter... The free aircraft was supposedly for anyone and everyone, no backing required.

[ishtmail]

1 dollar got you 3 aircraft as far as I understood the riddle that was Ilya's Kickstarter... The free aircraft was supposedly for anyone and everyone, no backing required.

 

Oh, yeah, you're right... went and re-read the Kickstarter text. It was one airplane for free, and three for $1, four for $20, five for $30 and 6 for $40.

 

Please note that we are revising a number of free planes available to non-backers on release.

 

This affects ONLY those who have not backed the project. The change does not affect ANY current backers of ANY level.

 

If you back the project at any time before the funding period ends on October 5th, your rewards will be as previously stated.

 

Here's what you'll be able to fly:

 

$0 (non-backer): ONE aircraft (either P-47, Spitfire, or Bf.109, to be voted for by backers)

 

$1: THREE aircraft (P-47, Spitfire, and Bf.109)

 

$20: FOUR aircraft (P-47, Spitfire, Bf.109, plus one more of your choice)

 

$30: FIVE aircraft (P-47, Spitfire, Bf.109, plus two more of your choice)

 

$40: ALL aircraft (all aircraft in the initial release)

[NineLine]

Oh, yeah, you're right... went and re-read the Kickstarter text. It was one airplane for free, and three for $1, four for $20, five for $30 and 6 for $40.

 

No worries... I still have trouble understanding the structure ;)

[fastfreddie]

The poorly run kick starter campaign and its fall out is going to hit ED hard. Hopefully they come up with a plan to make everyone happy. I wasn't ever really encouraged with them splitting DCS World and DCS WWII. There were a lot of questions about whether DCS World planes will work in WWii or the other way around even in the beginning.

 

Don't expect ED to keep everything that was promised in the Kickstarter ... which sounded more like some kind of political race with all the to good to be true promises. Lets give them some time to figure out how this is going to work. At this point I'm surprised they don't just refund the Kickstarter people(me included) their pledges just to get rid of this headache. I'm sure they would make much more money selling FW190 and Bf109 individually than the $150k that kickstarter raised.

[159th_Viper]

ED should incorporate a tab in the rewards section for those who wish to nullify their reward entitlements. I personally cannot in good faith expect serials for 6 flyable aircraft for the paltry sum of $40, or one serial for a standalone install of DCS WWII which in all probability will require a monumantal amount of work in any event and for what? A product that will never run with DCS World?

 

No thanx.

 

I'd rather forego my entitlement entirely to any serial/s I might have been entitled to and chalk it up to a lesson learnt, knowing that every penny helps. Goodness knows those serials ain't cheap I would have thought.

[ishtmail]

The poorly run kick starter campaign and its fall out is going to hit ED hard. Hopefully they come up with a plan to make everyone happy. I wasn't ever really encouraged with them splitting DCS World and DCS WWII. There were a lot of questions about whether DCS World planes will work in WWii or the other way around even in the beginning.

 

Don't expect ED to keep everything that was promised in the Kickstarter ... which sounded more like some kind of political race with all the to good to be true promises. Lets give them some time to figure out how this is going to work. At this point I'm surprised they don't just refund the Kickstarter people(me included) their pledges just to get rid of this headache. I'm sure they would make much more money selling FW190 and Bf109 individually than the $150k that kickstarter raised.

 

The number of backers of the Kickstarter project is only 2500. Honoring these people's pledges is the cheapest solution for ED, because if they don't honor them, I doubt these pledgers would go and BUY all the individual modules. I know I'd be pretty bitter if ED decided to cut me loose and force me to buy airplanes I already payed for (regardless of whether I pledged money to RRG and not ED; ED was very tightly involved in the DCS:WW2 proceedings and they have responsibility for the project, whether they like it or not).

[NineLine]

I agree... I did 40 because it was a stupid deal for me to pass up, it felt like I was picking RRG's pockets.

 

ED should incorporate a tab in the rewards section for those who wish to nullify their reward entitlements. I personally cannot in good faith expect serials for 6 flyable aircraft for the paltry sum of $40, or one serial for a standalone install of DCS WWII which in all probability will require a monumantal amount of work in any event and for what? A product that will never run with DCS World?

 

No thanx.

 

I'd rather forego my entitlement entirely to any serial/s I might have been entitled to and chalk it up to a lesson learnt, knowing that every penny helps. Goodness knows those serials ain't cheap I would have thought.

[NineLine]

The number of backers of the Kickstarter project is only 2500. Honoring these people's pledges is the cheapest solution for ED, because if they don't honor them, I doubt these pledgers would go and BUY all the individual modules. I know I'd be pretty bitter if ED decided to cut me loose and force me to buy airplanes I already payed for (regardless of whether I pledged money to RRG and not ED; ED was very tightly involved in the DCS:WW2 proceedings and they have responsibility for the project, whether they like it or not).

 

This was RRG's project. They decided on all options for the KS, ED had little to no involvement on that as far as I understand it... what we will get is probably what ED would have suggested to Ilya if they had been asked in the first place.

[lighthaze]

I honstely wouldn't be mad at Eagle if they decided to not uphold all the promises Luthier made during the Kickstarter. Shelling out this amount of planes for such a low amount of money seemed always reckless and quite naive.

 

That being said: I backed for $30 and would be completely fine to receive a $30 coupon from Eagle which I can use for whatever aircraft I want.

[empeck]

The number of backers of the Kickstarter project is only 2500. Honoring these people's pledges is the cheapest solution for ED, because if they don't honor them, I doubt these pledgers would go and BUY all the individual modules. I know I'd be pretty bitter if ED decided to cut me loose and force me to buy airplanes I already payed for (regardless of whether I pledged money to RRG and not ED; ED was very tightly involved in the DCS:WW2 proceedings and they have responsibility for the project, whether they like it or not).

 

+1

 

I pledged because ED was involved in the Kickstarter campaign. I hope they will keep the promises.

[komemiute]

ED should incorporate a tab in the rewards section for those who wish to nullify their reward entitlements. I personally cannot in good faith expect serials for 6 flyable aircraft for the paltry sum of $40, or one serial for a standalone install of DCS WWII which in all probability will require a monumantal amount of work in any event and for what? A product that will never run with DCS World?

 

No thanx.

 

I'd rather forego my entitlement entirely to any serial/s I might have been entitled to and chalk it up to a lesson learnt, knowing that every penny helps. Goodness knows those serials ain't cheap I would have thought.

 

This. I either get what was promised (four flyables NOT restricted to DCS WWII) or the cash back, in the form of a discount on ANY module for DCS World.

[Witchking]

I think thats fair. I would willingly forgo my pledge as a support donation to ED to make them keep making amazing sims. But, realistically, can you expect everyone to do the same?

 

I think the best option is to maybe refund the backers who are not willing to forgo their backing? 120K refund is not bad. Perhaps give an option. You can either refund the backer or give them an option to forgo the backing as a support donation to ED. You can get your name in the credits/acknowledgements for DCS world. I think this is the best. Honestly, I don't know the size of ED's customer base, but those 2500 who backed probably are the only ones who will buy these modules at full price.

 

But yeah.. a dollar for 3 flyables is ludicrous. 4 for $20, the math doesn't make sense. Unless ED sells these aircraft as separate modules for DCS world, and waits an year or more for the full price sales to be done before releasing DCS WWII, there is no way for them to logically make this happen.

 

I agree integration of DCS world and DCS WWII is the best. But not with the current financial structure. Unless ED resolve the kickstarter issue, if they integrate everything, ED will go out of business.

[Flying Penguin]

I pledged because ED was involved in the Kickstarter campaign. I hope they will keep the promises.

 

+1

 

Without ED being in the picture I'm sure there are many people that wouldn't have backed. It would be a very risky move to simply throw their hands up and go "wasn't me gov...".

 

But they have said they will try honor it, so let's wait and see.

[ishtmail]

This was RRG's project. They decided on all options for the KS, ED had little to no involvement on that as far as I understand it... what we will get is probably what ED would have suggested to Ilya if they had been asked in the first place.

 

ED's involvement wasn't that small.

 

- they actively advertised the project on their webpage.

- they set up a separate page on DCS website for backers who wanted to pay via Paypal

- ED set up the Backer page on their website to choose the rewards

- many people working on DCS:WW2 were ED employees

- ED decided to grant DCS:World serials for P51D and Dora to backers that selected those (I doubt ED would collect that money from the Kickstarter funds to cover the cost of those serials)

- ED granted full use of both P51D and Dora in DCS:WW2

 

 

So, by no means was DCS:WW2 a simple 3rd party project. ED was more involved in this project than any other 'non-ED' stuff, including Belsimtek (whom they've partnered closely with).

To me, this project always felt like RRG was essentially a '2nd development studio for ED', and ED offered so much support to the project that I never had any doubts about ED being heavily involved.

[empeck]

But yeah.. a dollar for 3 flyables is ludicrous. 4 for $20, the math doesn't make sense.

 

It was easy to predict during the campaing, and if it's an issue it shouldn't be promised. :music_whistling:

[Witchking]

ED's involvement wasn't that small.

 

- many people working on DCS:WW2 were ED employees

 

Most RRG employees were recently inducted into ED. They were initially separate.