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¿Real engine damage model?


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In DCS. the Merlin Engine on the P-51 is one of the most realistic I have ever seen on a combat simulation. But its still far from perfect.

 

The damage model its very unrealistic.

 

Its either working normal or its completely dead.

 

I really want for RRG to create a more realistic damage model on its engines.

 

If a piston engine IRL its overheated it gives you all kind of warnings

 

Visual... by the temp instruments and smoke caused by the temp of the oil, and evaporation of the coolant liquid

Sound... A very important way to know your engine its not working as it should

Physical... Vibrations

ETC

 

there's a hundreds of parts that can get damaged in an engine. and in DCS apparently there's only two of them either its the engine it self and it completely stops or its the prop governor and your RPM gets stuck.

 

I want cylinders to get hit, turbos blown, magnetos damaged, spark plugs fouled, loss of compression by overheating, coolant leaks and evaporation (smoke)

 

All airplanes in the RRG repertory have a very different set of engines "problems" and "advantages"

 

The Spitfire its a nightmare when it comes to temperature control, cowl flap too close and it gets hot, cowl flaps too open and it creates more drag than its worth and low speed and in gets hot.

 

P-47, Turbo managment, its not automatic like the P-51, I want to be able to blow the turbo by pushing it too far, or at the wrong time! (low throttle, hight turbo) and sturdy radial engine air cooled.

 

BF109, realistic pitch control (AUTO/MANUAL) , lets get over that myth that the RPM its automatic on the BF109

 

And to all windmilling props!!! only very heavy damage would keep your prop static when flying at 300mph

A.K.A. Timon -117th- in game

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Spark plug fouling is modelled. Rough running is also modelled. IIRC coolant loss from boiling over is modelled too, albeit not visually.

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BF109, realistic pitch control (AUTO/MANUAL) , lets get over that myth that the RPM its automatic on the BF109

 

What? Which myth?

 

From late E-4 until K-4 all Messers had automatic control of propeller pitch and r.p.m., which could be disabled by the pilot.

 

Did you ever hear from "One lever operation" on german planes?

 

For example:

Junkers Jumo 213: Motorbediengestänge

BMW 801: Kommandogerät

 

 

Some sources from tests:

 

From a British report on the Bf109F.

 

" The airscrew has now been fitted with a constant speed unit of novel design. The r.p.m. at which the airscrew is controlled depends on the position of the throttle lever.With the throttle lever fully forward the unit is set to control at 2,600 r.p.m. When the throttle lever is moved back the r.p.m.automatically fall an appropriate amount.

The constant speed unit can be cut out by the pilot and the airscrew pitch controlled in the same way as on the Me 109E"

 

R.A.E. report on F-2

 

"The constant speed airscrew is fully automatic and requires no operation

by the pilot, as r.p.m. and pitch setting are governed by the throttle opening and engine load. This is a great advantage in combat, being one thing less for the pilot to worry about. He can, however, control the pitch

manually in the event of failure of the automatic control."


Edited by Flying-Kane

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What? Which myth?

 

From late E-4 until K-4 all Messers had automatic control of propeller pitch and r.p.m., which could be disabled by the pilot.

 

Did you ever hear from "One lever operation" on german planes?

 

For example:

Junkers Jumo 213: Motorbediengestänge

BMW 801: Kommandogerät

 

 

Some sources from tests:

 

From a British report on the Bf109F.

 

" The airscrew has now been fitted with a constant speed unit of novel design. The r.p.m. at which the airscrew is controlled depends on the position of the throttle lever.With the throttle lever fully forward the unit is set to control at 2,600 r.p.m. When the throttle lever is moved back the r.p.m.automatically fall an appropriate amount.

The constant speed unit can be cut out by the pilot and the airscrew pitch controlled in the same way as on the Me 109E"

 

R.A.E. report on F-2

 

"The constant speed airscrew is fully automatic and requires no operation

by the pilot, as r.p.m. and pitch setting are governed by the throttle opening and engine load. This is a great advantage in combat, being one thing less for the pilot to worry about. He can, however, control the pitch

manually in the event of failure of the automatic control."

 

 

AUTO/MANUAL i should have said myth of only automatic. Its that ok?

A.K.A. Timon -117th- in game

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Whilst I agree with the OP about engine management being very realistic I don't agree about the damage model for the engine being simple at all. Whilst in combat I can, often frequently, get my governor damaged which will end my merlin after a short while I also notice that partial damage can occur and I'm not getting full rpm and/or MP and I can limp away back to base if I'm lucky. Whether that's due to hits or overheating I couldn't say. In my experience there is a lot of minor damage that can be inflicted upon my merlin in DCS and it's anything but either 'fully working or not working at all'. Whilst visual effects are definitely lacking for the DCS P51, there are audible sounds as the engine overheats. They are subtle but they are there. Tbh the DCS P51 has imo the best engine damage model of the sims I play (original IL2, Cliffs, BoS) - the damage model for the rest of the a/c is a little lacking compared to Cliffs for example and so are the visual effects but the actual engine DM is far better. Maybe it's a case of my comparing the engine DM to those games and maybe the OP is comparing it to something more complex?


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There are a lot of thinks that can go wrong in an engine, as said and it is right. However most of those failures/damages will kill the engine in a short time.

For example you said you want a cylinder to be hit. That would kill the engine as it's very likely the piston can't move after that, meaning the con-rod will snap. That will finish the engine in no time. At 2500-3000 rpm the con-rod will damage the internals (don't know where the oil and coolant runs in a merlin) but normally you will loose all of your oil pressure and maybe coolant as well. The other cylinder (V engine) will most likely fail in the same way as both con-rods are connected at the same pin on the crankshaft. After that your engine will not windmill !

I repaired ship diesel engine for years after this kind of damages (no shooting involved of course) and believe me if something goes badly wrong in an engine, it takes a few seconds and it just stops.

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At ground, idle throttle, no spark plug fouling

 

Just tested again... over 20 min.. no spark plug fouling

 

Try going to T/O power after those 20 mins.

Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two.

Come let's eat grandpa!

Use punctuation, save lives!

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My only criticism of the engine damage modeling is the frequency of certain crippling events. The governor damage is so frequent it breaks immersion and becomes very frustrating. I have never read about ANY pilot reporting a battle damaged governor. If it was this common I'm sure it would be discussed in pilot accounts. That being said, this is typically only an issue when fighting AI, which leads me to believe it is their unrealistic accuracy moreso than the engine modelling. How many times have you guys seen a 190 at max range snipe your governor? Countless times for me. It's not hard to avoid when fighting one AI enemy. But when in a swirling dogfight with a group of AI aircraft it is only a matter of time till it happens. These guys are governor seeking maniacs! :D Maybe at least it should be hard to destroy the prop governor from dead astern? Throw us a bone!

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AUTO/MANUAL i should have said myth of only automatic. Its that ok?

 

Ok sry, my fault. :D

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My only criticism of the engine damage modeling is the frequency of certain crippling events. The governor damage is so frequent it breaks immersion and becomes very frustrating.

 

My only gripe too. Maybe it happened a few times but you're absolutely correct, it breaks immersion. It seems like such a silly issue to have on such an advance simulator. It's almost a guarantee, get in a fight with several AI and you will be defeated by your governor. Other than that I would just like to see more visual effects.

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Why do bad guys always have to use the AUG? :) To this Austrian, it gives them an heir of law enforcement. Weird mixed feelings. :P

 

Ah well, i digress.

Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two.

Come let's eat grandpa!

Use punctuation, save lives!

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Why do bad guys always have to use the AUG? :) To this Austrian, it gives them an heir of law enforcement. Weird mixed feelings. :P

 

Ah well, i digress.

 

Especially when they use it as a single shot sniper rifle... first try headshot from beyond the fence! He MUST be flying those 190s!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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