SU-35 vs F-22

[JNASova]

Facts on what? I havent made any conclusions. I havent said which aircraft I think is better, and any opinion I might offer up would be the same as yours, purely biased in nature...

 

Now we are speaking the same lenguage.We have an opinion and that is all.Fair answer.

[Exorcet]

Now we are speaking the same lenguage.We have an opinion and that is all.Fair answer.

 

Fact is,F 22 has very litle chanse at close range figts.

If so, that was a poor choice of words.

[JNASova]

The fact is that the F-22 is an absolute killer at BFM. It has been killing the daylights out of other fighters in exercises where it can enter the fight as a raptor would enter the fight: Undetected. No, it isn't BVR, it is WVR.

 

So, I think we can agree that you don't really know what you're talking about :)

 

 

BTW, the USSR did not invent he stealth plane, or even the idea of one. That professor wrote a paper on EM theory, LM had a look at it and ran with it and built the F-117 eventually.

 

Stop watching youtube and reading wiki and get down to reading some real history. You might find it isn't a cheap endeavor though.

 

LOL.So F 22 need to wait dark to start to act.HA HA HA,what if than is going to be late?LOL.or rain start to fall? :megalol:

Based on what you say its going to be undetected?You have official document abouth abilities of the beryoza or RWR of the Eurofighter,Rafale??:megalol:

[JNASova]

If so, that was a poor choice of words.

 

He has his own,and I my own opinion.Thats all.You must respect that.

[NineLine]

He has his own,and I my own opinion.Thats all.You must respect that.

 

I think he meant your choice of the word "fact"

 

And I didnt really state an opinion, I just didnt understand how you claimed yours was fact based on google-able facts....

Edited May 16, 2014 by NineLine

[JNASova]

Stealth aircraft were invented by the US. The Russians developed the theory, didn't realize the application, and let the US gain the advantage.

 

Thay had idea for stelth plane,and started to work on it,but unable to finish it with out help of the soviet expert.Man explaned everything.

[GGTharos]

No, he doesn't need to wait. In fair fights it ends up about even with lighter fighters like Typhoon and Rafale.

 

Rain isn't a problem.

 

In a real fight, it's not going to give you a fair fight, and that is the point.

 

Like I said ... stop reading wiki and watching youtube and look for some real information. Most of it you will not find easily lying around, and some of it might cost you money to get, if you even know where to get it.

 

As for Beryoza, that's an old, old RWR. I wouldn't expect it to have a chance against F-22 radar, like I wouldn't expect an old US RWR to have a chance against the F-22 radar.

 

As for RWR of EF and Rafael, what about their RWR? What do you think it'll do for those planes?

 

LOL.So F 22 need to wait dark to start to act.HA HA HA,what if than is going to be late?LOL.or rain start to fall? :megalol:

Based on what you say its going to be undetected?You have official document abouth abilities of the beryoza or RWR of the Eurofighter,Rafale??:megalol:

Edited May 16, 2014 by GGTharos

[JNASova]

I think he meant your choice of the word "fact"

 

I know.We all have our opinion based on something what we belive it might be fact in situation like this ,top secret military stuff.Demonstrations on airshows and others...Thats all we can get.

[GGTharos]

They never started on anything.

 

Thay had idea for stelth plane,and started to work on it,but unable to finish it with out help of the soviet expert.Man explaned everything.

[NineLine]

I know.We all have our opinion based on something what we belive it might be fact in situation like this ,top secret military stuff.Demonstrations on airshows and others...Thats all we can get.

 

Airshows are not good to base opinions on combat employment.... and I cant think of anything else that would be good to based a factual opinion on the F-22... or the Su-35 for that matter...

[JNASova]

No, he doesn't need to wait. In fair fights it ends up about even with lighter fighters like Typhoon and Rafale.

 

Rain isn't a problem.

 

In a real fight, it's not going to give you a fair fight, and that is the point.

 

Like I said ... stop reading wiki and watching youtube and look for some real information. Most of it you will not find easily lying around, and some of it might cost you money to get, if you even know where to get it.

 

As for Beryoza, that's an old, old RWR. I wouldn't expect it to have a chance against F-22 radar, like I wouldn't expect an old US RWR to have a chance against the F-22 radar.

 

As for RWR of EF and Rafael, what about their RWR? What do you think it'll do for those planes?

 

Small plane,but smaller engine to.Su 35 is also big plane,so he has no problem with that.Following logic like that,US would made F 22 small to,but that did not.That teling you something?

 

If you have better sources obouth F 22,Su 35,Rafale,show it to us how good informed you are.You said in real life,F 22 would take down enemy unnoticed.Do you have any evidence for this, other than saying that I heard that the new radar F 22 is super ...?

Edited May 16, 2014 by =JNA=Sova

[JNASova]

They never started on anything.

 

As I sad,man explaned everything.

[Scrim]

On the end,SSSR have invented "Stelt plane",not US as you think.in here is confirmed by the U.S. scientists who made the F177.

 

If you think anyone with any resemblance of a sound mind will believe anything out of a YT channel called "PowerRossiya", then I am glad to announce that I have a prominent landmark in London, a very famous bridge, for sale to you exclusively. If you buy it, it will be airlifted to your residence by flying unicorns.

[JNASova]

If you think anyone with any resemblance of a sound mind will believe anything out of a YT channel called "PowerRossiya", then I am glad to announce that I have a prominent landmark in London, a very famous bridge, for sale to you exclusively. If you buy it, it will be airlifted to your residence by flying unicorns.

 

For you information,video include statements of the US experts who where working on F 117.:D

[Scrim]

WHat I find interesting is that all these people that think the F-22 is crap dont realize that they are posting info saying the opposite... why is this Typhoon pilot so excited he claimed a kill on an F-22? If its a crap plane what is the big deal, and if its such a crap plane why are the Chinese, Russians and others developing similar designs?

 

But this type of debate is pretty much the same as a bunch of NASCAR guys debating Ford, Toyota or Chevy....

 

Not to mention that one's airforce is rather pathetic to say the least if it is a common practice to paint training "kills" on planes like other airforces do for actual kills in actual combat.

 

 

 

For you information,video include statements of the US experts who where working on F 117.:D

 

Here's a picture of the bridge that it very much appears I'm in the process of selling you:

Edited May 16, 2014 by Scrim

[JNASova]

So much abouth documents and profs you got for your "conclusions".

By,you "experts".:lol:

[winz]

Russians already have a radars that can clearly see the "stealth" aircraft."Stealth" does not mean invisible, but litle bit difficult to be detected.Now,at what distances,we cant know that.

"Little bit difficult"...tell that to Iraqi, and Jugoslavian air defences :) Radars aren't some kind of magic, but thier properties are defined by laws of physics. The detectable reflected power is defined by the radar equation. If you have a target with much much much lower RCS (stealth) then this target will be much much much harder to detect and no kind magic wand, or youtube video can change that. Thus stealth plane will always have an advatage. No kind of magical signal processing will help you, because the power reflected by the stealth plane is absorbed in atmosphere and there is nothing for your antenna to receive.

 

The only thing you can do is change other variables in the radar equation - like power of your radar, but that will yield the same results - stealth plane detectable at much shorter ranges then no stealth planes.

 

Or you can change the frequency, read lower, to fq ranges where shape of the plane doesn't have such a big impact on RCS)...But you don't wanna do that, because (once again, thanks to physics), your fq dictates the size of the anntena and radar resolution... There is reason why most tracking radars operate in the same spectrum.

 

edit: The bottom line is, stealth is a tool, one of many. Can an airplane without radar beat in a 1v1 dogfight an airplane with one? Sure it can, but is it an argument againts radars?

Edited May 16, 2014 by winz

[USARStarkey]

So much abouth documents and profs you got for your "conclusions".

By,you "experts".:lol:

 

Your main skill seems to be word jousting, just without the part where you spell words correctly.

You have not provided a single ounce of evidence yourself, yet you are quite busy calling people out on evidence they supposedly haven't given you. Your argument so far has been based solely on broad statements based on nothing or inferences made by the most vague implications. For example, you stated that the Americans turning down the Russians for a F-22 vs X Russian plane duel was somehow proof of Russian performance. That is quite possibly the most inane argument I have ever heard regarding a aircraft.

[JNASova]

There is something wrong with F 22,or it is flown by guys from 104-th squadron.

http://theaviationist.com/2013/06/19/f-22-shot-down-by-rafale/

[JNASova]

"Little bit difficult"...tell that to Iraqi, and Jugoslavian air defences :) Radars aren't some kind of magic, but thier properties are defined by laws of physics. The detectable reflected power is defined by the radar equation. If you have a target with much much much lower RCS (stealth) then this target will be much much much harder to detect and no kind magic wand, or youtube video can change that. Thus stealth plane will always have an advatage. No kind of magical signal processing will help you, because the power reflected by the stealth plane is absorbed in atmosphere and there is nothing for your antenna to receive.

 

The only thing you can do is change other variables in the radar equation - like power of your radar, but that will yield the same results - stealth plane detectable at much shorter ranges then no stealth planes.

 

Or you can change the frequency, read lower, to fq ranges where shape of the plane doesn't have such a big impact on RCS)...But you don't wanna do that, because (once again, thanks to physics), your fq dictates the size of the anntena and radar resolution... There is reason why most tracking radars operate in the same spectrum.

 

edit: The bottom line is, stealth is a tool, one of many. Can an airplane without radar beat in a 1v1 dogfight an airplane with one? Sure it can, but is it an argument againts radars?

Jugoslavia had "KUB",and "NEVA".Very old systems.Air force,allmost nothing.Almost the whole the time,there was 100 NATO planes on the Jugoslavian sky.We had no chance.Best thing was to turn off radars,and hide somewere.Even in that circumstances,we shot down one F 16,and F 117.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

"Little bit difficult"...tell that to Iraqi, and Jugoslavian air defences :)

You are drawing wrong conclusions from the NATO use of military over Yugoslavia. Yugoslavian air defense system was numerically overwhelmed. There was economical sanctions on Yugoslavia for years before NATO use of military force, thus, maintenance and upgrade of military hardware, radars, airplanes, simply did not happen. And there was 25 (or more) countries against one. Typical street gang fight, where ten bullies get together and jump on one guy to beat him to death.

 

This thread is not about the most powerful military alliance bombing one of the smallest nations in the world. This thread is about two sides of equal or similarly equal strength, F-22 against Su-35.

[Flogger23m]

Su-35 may be comparable to an F-15 or Eurofighter/Rafale. But the Russians tend to be behind on advanced avionics compared to the west. The Su-35 is competent, but it won't do so well against an F-22.

 

Canned dogfights with guns only where the Eurofighters are told the F-22s are is not a good way to measure survivability/combat.

[JNASova]

Still no documents,no profs for F 22.You have no any prof for what you said abouth F 22 guys?

[GGTharos]

Where are your documents?

[USARStarkey]

Where are your documents?

 

That what I was saying lol