SU-35 vs F-22

[otto]

Are you all like second grade or something ?

 

It's like a batman vs superman discussion .You see on paper superman(f22) is better but in real life batman(su-35) will defeat superman with lightning bolts from his eyes and thunder from his ....6 :) .

 

It depends on so much variables. where the battle takes place .Who has superior numbers. Are there radars that see stealth aircraft ? and many other things. This discussion is pointless.

Edited May 16, 2014 by otto

[USARStarkey]

That page is twisting the truth so hard it is almost palpable. We have no idea what situation was at the start of the fight, we don't know how heavily loaded the F-22 or the Rafale was. We dont know how skilled each pilot was etc. The Rafale Eurofighter and F-22 are all excellent dogfighters. Just because we lost one doesn't mean anything-there has never been a fully invincible

[JNASova]

Based on what? Again... you are reading something off a blog on the internet. Only "draw" I see being official here is you "draw"ing conclusions... you dont know any of the circumstances of these "exercises".

 

You ever played sports? Have you ever played a pre-season game? How dos it compare to a playoff game?

 

Point being... there are so many factors in play here, how can you conclude the planes abilities from one instance, and instance with no hard facts behind it?

If you insist on 100% data, we would need to have full access to the information of the United States and the Russian military as well as to witness the tests.This of course will never happen.

Therefore, all we can do is to make these or the other conclusions from the documents which we can get.So your "conclusions"are as good as mine.

The fact that you have an opposite opinion, does not mean that your "conclusions" are better.But if you insist on official documents and classified information, lets see what you can ofer to prove your "conclusions"?

[Dudikoff]

It's amazing how much some people can embarrass themselves on subjects like these. I agree, this is pretty much a the circus of the forum ever since the faux F-15C module thread disappeared.

 

I barely managed to put that behind me and to start all over again, but you just have to rub it in again and again.. ;)

 

Just to add something less OT, when a debate reduces all the complex factors of air warfare to something vs something in general and especially when the latest tech is involved (and thus all the relevant data is kept under tight leash), a constructive debate can't really be expected when there's little to nothing to base it on. So, one fair conclusion could be that there's nothing to conclude :)

[NineLine]

If you insist on 100% data, we would need to have full access to the information of the United States and the Russian military as well as to witness the tests.This of course will never happen.

Therefore, all we can do is to make these or the other conclusions from the documents which we can get.So your "conclusions"are as good as mine.

The fact that you have an opposite opinion, does not mean that your "conclusions" are better.But if you insist on official documents and classified information, lets see what you can ofer to prove your "conclusions"?

 

I dont have an opposite opinion, that is what you are missing, I refuse to draw up an opinion based on so little reliable information.... I dont have any conclusions,,, except that you dont have enough data to draw any conclusions either.

[JNASova]

That page is twisting the truth so hard it is almost palpable. We have no idea what situation was at the start of the fight, we don't know how heavily loaded the F-22 or the Rafale was. We dont know how skilled each pilot was etc. The Rafale Eurofighter and F-22 are all excellent dogfighters. Just because we lost one doesn't mean anything-there has never been a fully invincible

 

Yes, it is twisting.From ten sentences, mentioned only one.Others "nobody sees," because they do not like what it says.So caled Deaf Phone game.

 

Fact is,F 22 has very litle chanse at close range figts.Only hope is BVR.We can agree that Russians also know that,and tha allredy have solution for that.On the end,SSSR have invented "Stelt plane",not US as you think.in here is confirmed by the U.S. scientists who made the F177.

[NineLine]

Fact is,F 22 has very litle chanse at close range figts.Only hope is BVR.

 

Fact based on what?

[JNASova]

I barely managed to put that behind me and to start all over again, but you just have to rub it in again and again.. ;)

 

Just to add something less OT, when a debate reduces all the complex factors of air warfare to something vs something in general and especially when the latest tech is involved (and thus all the relevant data is kept under tight leash), a constructive debate can't really be expected when there's little to nothing to base it on. So, one fair conclusion could be that there's nothing to conclude :)

 

YES.

[TAW_Blaze]

Fact is,F 22 has very litle chanse at close range figts.Only hope is BVR.

 

Right. Nice facts.

 

The amount of double standards on this forum is hilarious.

[NineLine]

YES.

 

 

LOL... you agree with that, yet you draw conclusions with no facts.... ;)

[JNASova]

Fact based on what?

 

Comparing the abilities of the F 22 and F 35,shown in the aviation exhibitions.

Russians have several times publicly in front of reporters, challenged Americans to duel on the airshows.AMERICANS refused.

[Exorcet]

If you insist on 100% data, we would need to have full access to the information of the United States and the Russian military as well as to witness the tests.This of course will never happen.

Therefore, all we can do is to make these or the other conclusions from the documents which we can get.So your "conclusions"are as good as mine.

The fact that you have an opposite opinion, does not mean that your "conclusions" are better.But if you insist on official documents and classified information, lets see what you can ofer to prove your "conclusions"?

 

And then

 

Yes, it is twisting.From ten sentences, mentioned only one.Others "nobody sees," because they do not like what it says.So caled Deaf Phone game.

 

Fact is,F 22 has very litle chanse at close range figts.

 

What happened to needing documents?

 

 

On the end,SSSR have invented "Stelt plane",not US as you think.in here is confirmed by the U.S. scientists who made the F177.

Stealth aircraft were invented by the US. The Russians developed the theory, didn't realize the application, and let the US gain the advantage.

[JNASova]

LOL... you agree with that, yet you draw conclusions with no facts.... ;)

 

We still havent seen your "facts":lol:

And other guys?

[outlawal2]

As we all know from many sources, the percentage efficiency AMRAAM is not particularly high.Russians already have a radars that can clearly see the "stealth" aircraft."Stealth" does not mean invisible, but litle bit difficult to be detected.Now,at what distances,we cant know that.So I personally think that f 22 is not much bigger advantage over the F15.Plus,Russians preparing something new :D.Here is the link.

 

http://rt.com/news/t50-missile-advanced-guidance-643/

 

Total and absolute Bull Sh#t... You are completely full of it..

I am done

[NineLine]

Comparing the abilities of the F 22 and F 35,shown in the aviation exhibitions.

Russians have several times publicly in front of reporters, challenged Americans to duel on the airshows.AMERICANS refused.

 

WHy would they show their hand like that if they want to maintain an advantage.... and those are NOT facts to base any conclusion on. Silliness...

 

Show me facts on anything you just said.

[NineLine]

We still havent seen your "facts":lol:

And other guys?

 

Facts on what? I havent made any conclusions. I havent said which aircraft I think is better, and any opinion I might offer up would be the same as yours, purely biased in nature...

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I barely managed to put that behind me and to start all over again, but you just have to rub it in again and again.. ;)

 

Just to add something less OT, when a debate reduces all the complex factors of air warfare to something vs something in general and especially when the latest tech is involved (and thus all the relevant data is kept under tight leash), a constructive debate can't really be expected when there's little to nothing to base it on. So, one fair conclusion could be that there's nothing to conclude :)

I agree 100%.

[Falcon_S]

...And how many kills did the F-22's get anyway (for their ONE loss)?

One or three :music_whistling: does not matter. It is important that F-22 is not superior. Farnborough 2012: "Yesterday we had Raptor salad for lunch" - German Typhoon pilot said after dogfighting with the F-22.

A Luftwaffe Eurofighter with three Raptor kill markings painted near the canopy. (Image Credit: Dietmar Fenners, 2012; retrieved via The Aviationist)

 

Just imagine what Su35 would do to F-22 - I think Su35 will tear F22 like as sow tear oily rags. I have a little joke, don`t get mad.

[NineLine]

WHat I find interesting is that all these people that think the F-22 is crap dont realize that they are posting info saying the opposite... why is this Typhoon pilot so excited he claimed a kill on an F-22? If its a crap plane what is the big deal, and if its such a crap plane why are the Chinese, Russians and others developing similar designs?

 

But this type of debate is pretty much the same as a bunch of NASCAR guys debating Ford, Toyota or Chevy....

[GGTharos]

One or three :music_whistling: does not matter. It is important that F-22 is not superior. Farnborough 2012: "Yesterday we had Raptor salad for lunch" - German Typhoon pilot said after dogfighting with the F-22.

 

In a fight where they started fairly with guns only (the Typhoon guy knew where the Raptor was), in the end they ended up with even scores. The F-22 is twice the weight of the Typhoon.

 

Just imagine what Su35 would do to F-22 - I think Su35 will tear F22 like as sow tear oily rags. I have a little joke, don`t get mad.

 

Yeah, like I said, Su-35 will do Cobra/Kulbit and Raptor will eject.

[Falcon_S]

...If its a crap plane what is the big deal, and if its such a crap plane why are the Chinese, Russians and others developing similar designs?

 

But this type of debate is pretty much the same as a bunch of NASCAR guys debating Ford, Toyota or Chevy....

 

I did not say it was crap. I just wanted to say that it is not indestructible. Some people just do not take a second opinion and debate start to look like as you told.

[GGTharos]

The fact is that the F-22 is an absolute killer at BFM. It has been killing the daylights out of other fighters in exercises where it can enter the fight as a raptor would enter the fight: Undetected. No, it isn't BVR, it is WVR.

 

So, I think we can agree that you don't really know what you're talking about :)

 

 

BTW, the USSR did not invent he stealth plane, or even the idea of one. That professor wrote a paper on EM theory, LM had a look at it and ran with it and built the F-117 eventually.

 

Stop watching youtube and reading wiki and get down to reading some real history. You might find it isn't a cheap endeavor though.

 

Fact is,F 22 has very litle chanse at close range figts.Only hope is BVR.We can agree that Russians also know that,and tha allredy have solution for that.On the end,SSSR have invented "Stelt plane",not US as you think.in here is confirmed by the U.S. scientists who made the F177.

[NineLine]

I did not say it was crap. I just wanted to say that it is not indestructible. Some people just do not take a second opinion and debate start to look like as you told.

 

 

 

I havent seen anyone say it was indestructible.

Edited May 16, 2014 by NineLine

[Ktulu2]

A-120s D are also coming if you talk about future upgrades.

[JNASova]

Total and absolute Bull Sh#t... You are completely full of it..

I am done

 

Is that all profs you have guys?Sh*t?