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Old 10-11-2009, 12:27 PM   #1
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Default Even the pros put their blades together

Out of curiosity, I Googled "KA-50 crash" to see if there had been any real-life crashes of this excellent but rare bird. I was surprised by these two finds, talking about a crash in 1998:

Quote:
Kamov Ka-50 crash kills Torzhok training base commander

Russian Army Maj Gen Boris Vorbiev was killed on 17 June, when the Kamov Ka-50 Hokum he was piloting crashed at the Torzhok combat training centre.
Vorbiev, commander of the Torzhok centre, was an experienced helicopter pilot.



According to witnesses, the accident occurred as the Ka-50 was being flown at low altitude over the test centre. The helicopter collided with the ground and immediately exploded.



The flight data recorder has been recovered from the crash site, and is being reviewed by the investigating commission to try to establish the cause of the accident.



A handful of Ka-50 attack helicopters have been delivered to Torzhok for combat evaluation.



The Hokum is in competition with the Mil Mi-28 Havoc to provide a successor to the Russian Army Aviation's Mi-24 Hind combat assault helicopter.



Despite years of evaluation, the Russian defence ministry has been unable to provide adequate funding for the army to begin procuring either helicopter in the numbers required to replace the Mil Hind. Kamov is also developing a night attack variant of the Ka-50.
Quote:
Rotor blade collision is blamed for Ka-50 crash

A collision between the co-axial main rotor blades caused the fatal crash of a Russian army Kamov Ka-50 attack helicopter in June 1998, says an official investigation into the accident.



The helicopter's pilot Maj Gen Boris Vorobyev, commander of the Army Aviation centre at Torzhok in the Tver region, was killed. He was one of the most experienced Russian military helicopter pilots.



The enquiry's official findings say "-the cause of the crash was the unintentional entry into an unexplored flight regime during complex combat manoeuvring exceeding current flight limitations". Eye witnesses claim the pilot was flying a simple terrain-hugging flight profile.



Many Russian helicopter experts claim that there is an unacceptable risk of collision between the upper and lower rotor blades during harsh combat manoeuvring, especially if abnormal rotor conditions have been caused by combat damage.



The crash of a Ka-50 prototype and those of earlier Kamov helicopters have been attributed to the same cause.
Despite the obvious tragedy, it is rather refreshing to know that even the best helicopter pilots in the world can manage to put their rotors together accidentally.
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:43 PM   #2
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I kind of agree with the second quote. It is actually strange that the Kamov desingers allow blade clashes to happen so easy. It is evident that even the most trained and experienced heli pilot can enter this flight regime even during practice, which is something that clearly should not happened.
Of course I can agree that blade clashing for us flight-simmers is OK, but for it to happen in real life is not ok. ?

edit: as I read through my post I find it hard to understand wth I was intending to say with this post... I'll just leave it like it is in case someone understands it anyway. I guess it didn't add very much to the thread anyway
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Last edited by Boulund; 10-11-2009 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:51 PM   #3
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News paper article on the same crash:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...0-%202198.html

Is this the only known crash of a KA50? I heard there might be 2..

Last edited by 26-J39; 10-11-2009 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulund View Post
I kind of agree with the second quote. It is actually strange that the Kamov desingers allow blade clashes to happen so easy. It is evident that even the most trained and experienced heli pilot can enter this flight regime even during practice, which is something that clearly should not happened.
Of course I can agree that blade clashing for us flight-simmers is OK, but for it to happen in real life is not ok. ?

edit: as I read through my post I find it hard to understand wth I was intending to say with this post... I'll just leave it like it is in case someone understands it anyway. I guess it didn't add very much to the thread anyway
Like all machines you need to treat them with due respect and keep them within certain limits. Any aircraft can be pushed past a "safe flight envelope".
I would guess an event like this is the equivalent of a conventional helicopter boom strike.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedpenguin View Post
....According to witnesses, the accident occurred as the Ka-50 was being flown at low altitude over the test centre. The helicopter collided with the ground and immediately exploded....
Was there not a post not so long ago that questioned the In-Game Propensity of the Kamov to explode when contacting the Ground?

The Question has been Answered it would seem........
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 26-J39 View Post
I would guess an event like this is the equivalent of a conventional helicopter boom strike.
Or stuff like when a helicopter (can't for the life of me recall the type) that was approaching for inflight-refuelling managed to cut it's refueling probe with it's blades.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:48 PM   #7
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The Ka50, as a design, is NUTS! I love the sim but you couldn't pay me enough to put me in the real thing. It's a near-miss 3000 times a minute! Kudos to Russia (and Turkey) for taking a more traditional, survivable approach to their attack helicopter programs.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:55 PM   #8
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Nuts?

Go to youtube and search for videos of conventional helicopters who lost their tail rotors due to enemy fire, gearbox failures and whatever else you'll like.

I'd much rather fly in a Ka-50 where, if I cause a rotordisc intersection, I'll end up ejecting with my zero/zero ejection seat instead of just spinning rapidly to my death or mutilation with the ww1-style pistol solution as my only option.

Since you are talking about "more survivable" I'd like your sources where flight hours in various regimes have been tallied and compared.
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Old 10-11-2009, 03:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherealN View Post
Or stuff like when a helicopter (can't for the life of me recall the type) that was approaching for inflight-refuelling managed to cut it's refueling probe with it's blades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-59V...eature=related here you go.
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Old 10-11-2009, 04:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericinexile View Post
The Ka50, as a design, is NUTS! I love the sim but you couldn't pay me enough to put me in the real thing. It's a near-miss 3000 times a minute! Kudos to Russia (and Turkey) for taking a more traditional, survivable approach to their attack helicopter programs.
Oh I very much don't agree, flying sober I've only had a blade clash once and that was being under fire and panic. I've probably flown 150hrs sober or so.
No problem at all to keep it within safe limits I thinks.

I'd imagine that you'd get a boom strike with a normal helicopter in the situations you get blade clash in the Ka-50(?)
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