Chaff and Flares

Not 100% because its not verified by a official source. But all the webpages on the internet dont say anything about countermeasures on this plane. Some even say : countermeasures - no flare / haff dispensers.

 

Here is a walkaround:

 

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/001-100/walk056_E2C/part2/walk056b.htm

Here's another walkaround, couldn't spot any dispensers...

http://daytonipms.com/Walks/E-2C/grumman_e.htm

During my entire time involved with the AH-64 (which lasted through 1995), no AH-64A ever carried two M130 dispensers. Only a single dispenser was mounted on the left side of the tailboom. Additionally, even in combat (Desert Storm), we did not carry flares. The dispenser carried 30 chaff cartridges. At the time, the "Black Hole" engine exhaust suppressors and the ALQ-144 were determined to be sufficient to counter all IR threats.

 

It wasn't until several years later that modification were made to upgrade the AH-64's IR threat detection and countermeasures systems.

UH-60A

 

"Defensive equipment includes the AN/APR-39 radar warn*ing receiver, AN/ALQ-144 IR-missile jammer, and twin M130 flare/chaff dispensers. The dispensers can be loaded with M206 flares and RR-170 chaff bundles."

Source: http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.html?id=4872

 

The M130 dispenser can be loaded with 30 flares or chaff cartriges, seems as you can mix anyway you want.

UPDATE, found this source: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/m-130.htm that indicates that the dispenser can only be loaded with either flares or chaff, i.e. no mixing.

 

"The capability to dispense both flare and chaff decoys can be achieved by adding a second dispenser assembly and payload module assembly to the aircraft."

 

 

Source: http://tri.army.mil/lc/cs/Csa/apm130.htm

 

I Can't find any info on typical loadout. But there's apparently only three possibilities. 30 flares and 30 chaff or 60 flares or 60 chaff.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Yellonet

F-16 only got 4 (block 10 to 52 , USAF,IIRC)

I was talking with the guy at work and this is wrong. The F-16A/B only have 2 chaff and flare dispensers.

I do not know how to edit photos but, you can see the dispenser just inboard of horizontal stab leading edge, on the strakes.

 

F-16 C/D (block 25 and above) have 4. All F-16 are able to carry more container on weapons pylons but, never or rarely seen in USAF F-16. Also some other countries have different set up. I'm not sure about those F-16, only USAF ones. Sorry for the bad info.:doh:

Edited June 27, 2008 by mvsgas

Programming EWS is a complex thing to do, Falcon pilots use DTC for storing general setup of EWS programmes (6 in total in Auto or MAN mode), radio channels, MFD menus etc.

 

I hope we'll be able to program various Ch/Fl sequencing and burst modes in DCS!

 

So it's really hard to say what would happen if U engage Falcon with pair of R-27R. In LOFC this was pretty scripted, AI defensive beam is always performed with a left break, placing the incoming missile on AI's 3 o'clock. This was so predictable and chaff catridges always shoot in pairs. If there's a possibility for AI driven planes to use different Chaff & Flare modes depending on the situation and quantity of incoming missiles this would be sooo much better and life like!

 

Another thing that spoiled the party in LOFC is continous "radar on" throughout the flight of AI fighters. I don't use radar unless I'm sure I'll fox some SARH! I usually request picture from AWACS which leads me to a target of interest just like real life GCI would! Shame there's no GCI commands in LOFC, I hope it's fixed in DCS!

 

Same goes to constant ECM use with AI planes! Stealthiness was pretty compromised. Hope for some fixing in DCS!

 

Cheers!

I hope my post wasn't taken as a OT nag! I was trying to advise better usage of decoys in DCS compared to LOFC!

Yes, but remember that the AH-64 carries a disco-ball (IR Jammer).

 

The only Ah-64 that I have seen a video of taking an IR missile hit, took it in the face - an angle which occludes the disco ball.

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alq-144.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALQ-144

 

Thanks.

Incomprehensible fact. IMHO, one of main threats for helicopters is IR manpads.

Edited June 27, 2008 by GGTharos

I hope we'll be able to program various Ch/Fl sequencing and burst modes in DCS!

I think I read a while ago that the Ka-50 had that ability and that it would be included in the simulation.

 

Here it is...

 

For the programming of countermeasure dispensers, the UV-26 control panel is used. Depending on the type of threat, the pilot can set the appropriate dispenser program for expending chaff and/or flares. The pilot can determine the number of flares to dispense in the volley, the time between each flare, and the time between volleys. Using the control panel it is possible to select with dispenser to use (left or right) and when to start or stop the dispensing program.

 

I think it maybe a typo since Ka-50 only has flares. (including 4 signal flares)

Edited June 27, 2008 by Yellonet

I think I read a while ago that the Ka-50 had that ability and that it would be included in the simulation.

 

I know of Ka-50, but what's with other planes, especially AI driven ones?! Will these planes be able to use various countermeasure programs?!

I know of Ka-50, but what's with other planes, especially AI driven ones?! Will these planes be able to use various countermeasure programs?!

Maybe there could be some set countermeasure programs that the AI will use according to some function that accounts for what what the AI "know" of the situation. But these things will probably have to wait until some fixed wing module, at least for other craft than the Ka-50.

CH-53E

 

Many sources say that the CH-53E uses the AN/ALE-39 system which can use up to 60 countermeasure charges. (max amount?)

Source: http://www.nawcwd.navy.mil/ewssa/prod_srv/systems/ale39.htm

 

I've also read that there was/is a program for replacing the ALE-39 with the ALE-47 but the dispenser for that system also has 30 charges per dispenser so that shouldn't make any difference.

 

In the images in the link below you can see something that looks like dispensers on both sides just over where the back door is attached. Not sure it's dispensers though...

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/gert_burkert_opitz/ch-53e_photos.htm

 

The Super Stallion does use both chaff and Flares, so I guess it's 30 of each.

Source: http://www.guncopter.com/ch-53e/

I'm glad you ED guys ask things like this, as You can see we're always eager to help!

:smartass::D I can not count that fast but here it shows how many flares C-130 can carry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJv8VZC1UVo&feature=related

Edited June 29, 2008 by mvsgas

Maybe this will make easier for us to look for exact data:

 

http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/jetds/an-ala2aln.html#_ALE ---> we get ejectors names here to start looking for numbers of bundles.

 

SH-3 (Is same on W version? Really don't know) - AN/ALE-43 Chaff Cutter & Dispenser Pod; manufactured by Alliant Defense Electronics

SH-3H - AN/ALE-37 Dispenser & Expanded Chaff Adapter (ECA)

MH-60, HH-60 - AN/ALE-47 TACDS (Threat Adaptive Countermeasures Dispenser System) Chaff & Flare Dispenser; manufactured by Marconi

 

C-130H AN/ALE-40 ACMDS - The chaff and flare dispensers of the updated AN/ALE-40 ACMDS are installed in four pairs under the aircraft’s nose and in the aft end of the main landing gear fairings (yellow circles).

AN/ALE-40 example mounted on NF-5A The flare block has 6x3 loads, the chaff 10x3 loads

 

The C-17 is equipped with Tracor AN/ALE-47 countermeasure flare dispensers and the Lockheed Martin/ Alliant Techsystems AN/AAR-47 missile warning system.

AN/ALE-47 - 15 flares or 30 chaffs stored in every magazine. Dimmensions (mm) 570x550x1960.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Poko24

^^^^^^

This means different variants = different dispensers and countermeasure quantities.

 

Is it possible to create various countermeasure quantities depending on the side (country) without drastically changing 3d model?!

Here is my list as I know.

 

- 3 x 80 on F-15C

- Sum. 240 on A-10A

- 2 x 30 on MiG-23MLD and MiG-27

- 3 x 32 on every Su-27 family member

- 2 x 24 (!) on Su-24. (Don't forget this was the first russian AC that designed with rocket launch detection system. The black domes on upper and bottom part of fuselage. )

 

Interesting thing the some AC setting match with my knowledge. For. ex Mig-29A, Su-17 and F-16A are good.