Missing functionality in the Harrier

As per NineLine's request, I am creating a thread here, detailing the functionality that I know the Harrier is missing. This will by no means be a complete list since I haven't flown the Harrier for while and that my head is not really cooperating with me.

 

ARBS: The ARBS/DMT right now seems magic. It automatically know altitude of the target and therefore knows slant range etc. It can snap onto anything, not just contrast, which also ties in to "It knows everything". It functions nothing like it is described in the NATOPS. Right now it appears to be nothing more than a budget TPOD. It is also missing its crosswind compensation and by extension, ability to handle moving targets, which again ties into how it locks onto things. It currently has none of the limitations of the real thing, except the slew limits of the camera. Basically, the ARBS itself is what is missing.

 

CCIP/AUTO targeting modes: This is in the same vein as the ARBS. The plane magically chooses the targeting mode (CCIP, RCIP, BCIP, GCIP etc.) for you, but what it chooses does not matter because all of them seem to be the same right now, aka the ARBS/plane already knows the exact data of the target. This is probably the same thing as with the ARBS. The modes are there, visually, but they are one and the same right now.

 

Back up modes: There are back up modes missing for targeting (DSL, DSL(1) and DIR). Simple as that.

Toss bombing mode: There is a sub mode to AUTO which is a toss mode. It is not implemented.

 

INS drift: This is not as important as the ones above, but since the limitation of GPS has been included into the sim, modelling a scenario without GPS would require drift of the INS to exist. This might not be modelable since data for INS drift probably is classified, but I'm bringing it up anyway.

 

This is what I can remember off the top of my head, but I know I can't recall all of the missing stuff right now. So if anybody knows more, just write it down here. And please correct me if something is off! Head do stoopid right now.

 

 

Summarised list of this thread:

Realistic ARBS

CCIP/AUTO Targeting modes

Back up targeting modes

Toss bombing AUTO mode

Realistic INS

(MAVF instead of MAVG. Pet peeve of mine)

Missing keybinds

Correct AWLS

MGRS Coordinate input

NWS button toggles MAV FOV

Many functions missing from EW page

HUD/INS Slew

[Weapons Release Data Page]

Separate brightness/contrast settings for different types of MFD pages

CCIP pipper should occlude velocity vector, designation diamond

Gunpod should not be able to function unless sufficient air pressure is supplied (I can't remember wether it was vstolmech or a pilot who pointed out this out and now I can't find the post)

DMT slave to sidewinder

Full VREST page features

Ground Power panel

EMCON mode

Expendables programming

Expendables auto release

Target point and Mark point data entry

Magnetic variation and its effects

Tarawa promised features

(AGM-65 ship mode, this is on ED side if I remember correctly)

[TPOD data such as coordinate display, north arrow etc]

AFC features during jet borne flight

[TOT and connected features]

Fuel dump animation

FLIR Hotspot tracking

Various BITs

Configurable IFF to let SRS/LotATC/etc. interface

Various FM deficiencies: Ask BKThunder, original comments broke 1.16

"The EW Menu page that provides the capability to control map, waypoint, RWR and Radar footprint (radar aircraft only) symbology displayed on the EW page"

LAR button on EHSD to show JDAM LAR.

AGM-122 Primary & Hot mode

Missing Cage/Uncage functionality.

Missing HUD symbology for caged seeker.

Missing symbology when uncaged seeker symbology is HUD limited. Sensitivity should increase when uncaged.

 

 

 

 

brackets [] is for things I can't verify/remember myself

parantheses () is for minor/possibly impossible things.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Marsvinet

A lot of BITs are missing too. It seems just the AUTO BIT part of the BIT pages work. And of that only the Auto on BIT2 page.

Missing Key binds. To numerous to count. Encoders and Rotary switches missing Clockwise and Counter Clockwise Key Binds

Posted in December 2018

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=226802

A correct implementation of AWLS (for carrier landings).

 

MGRS coordinate input.

 

Freely editing, copying and deleting coordinates between waypoints, mark points and target points.

Stick pinky button doesn't toggle Mav FOV when not locked.

The MPCD functionality of the EW page (RWR page) is wrong. Just about all of it is wrong but here are a few key points;

 

- The ADU (Azimuth Display Unit) is roll stabilized. It should act the same as the F-14's RWR. You can see an example here -

 

- The ECM option in the bottom right should only appear and be boxed if you've got to the EW page via another page. So for example if I'm on the DMT page and I select ECM in the bottom right, the EW page will display with ECM boxed in the bottom right corner. If I unbox ECM I will return to the DMT. If the EW page has been selected through the main menu of the aircraft then EW is displayed without the ECM option.

 

- Offset functionality is not modelled

 

- Limit threats is not modelled

 

- Priority mode is not modelled

Don't know how much is featured in since toilet2000 wrote this list up: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3744535&postcount=27

Someone more knowledgeable should take a look at it.

Isn't this what the community tracker thread was for? Seems like we're just creating a duplicate.

Off the top of my head:

 

HUD/INS slew mode

Weapons Release Data Page (WRD)

Separate brightness/contrast settings for different types of MFD pages (e.g changing map gain should not affect maverick gain)

CCIP pipper should occlude the velocity vector

Designation box/diamond should be occluded by CCIP pipper

Gunpod should not be able to function unless sufficient air pressure is supplied (determined by airspeed and rpm)

Action/no-action slew functionality (only one is used atm)

DMT TV slave to sidewinder

What about the HUD hotspot detector that they teased during development? Would certainly make visual attacks much more possible without having to zoom in.

Even if you add false positives it would still help

 

 

Modules: A10C, F5, F14, F16, F18, F86, AV8B, UH1, Mi8, Ka50, FC3, Supercarrier, CA, P47, P51

AFC doesn't stabilize the plane in jet-borne flight. Should bank to wings level with stick centered as long as it's not too far off and also keep the pitch within a certain range to ease workload in hover flight. Stick input still possible to move the things around, but only small amounts. If it's getting too much input, the AFC would switch itself off. Legend has it this is as per p. 2-53ff of a document that shall not be mentioned.

Advertised was a manual and a pocket guide. There is currently no manual, only the pocket guide exists - which is lacking a lot of details and complete chapters to be considered a proper manual. (and is probably too exhaustive for a mere pocket guide).

I'll add to this since the last update the right mfcd freezes as in can't click any buttons for a random amount of time

 

Promises that we'd be able to enter different format coordinates.

 

LSS on the builtin flir (forgot the name) not functioning.

 

air to ground SA will refuse to fire randomly you have to disarm everything then rearm master mode to get it back.

 

No markpoints

@Marsvinet

ED asked for a summed up list. Would it be possible that you could do such a list in your first post here?

You could already start with this and then add all other things which gets posted?

Isn't this what the community tracker thread was for? Seems like we're just creating a duplicate.

 

The community tracker is for bugs mainly. NineLine requested a thread/loads of PMs with what everybody deems to be missing features, which is what I started since nobody else had.

 

@Marsvinet

ED asked for a summed up list. Would it be possible that you could do such a list in your first post here?

You could already start with this and then add all other things which gets posted?

 

Good idea. I'll add up from this thread and that list.

I have now added the summarised list. toilet2000s list actually had many items that I know are in, but others that have flown the Harrier more recently could verify that.

 

I have skipped what are clear bugs. Those belong in the "Bugs and problems" section where tea_cypher is doing a nice job. To help him in his job, please remember to add a track if possible!

Also, please verify my list and note if I have forgotten something.

Wouldn't it make sense for us to have a new sub-forum for missing features, just like bugs?

 

Then, it would be one post per feature. The posts could be tagged [WIP], [NOT BEING IMPLEMENTED], [NOT REALISTIC], etc. This would fit better in to ED's existing workflow, and won't generate these huge double-digit page threads.

 

EDIT: Though that is a damn good list :thumbsup:

 

ANOTHER EDIT: What is meant by CCIP/Auto modes, second one on the list? CCIP and AUTO are implemented.

 

YET ANOTHER EDIT: Should add the following: -DMT Tracked moving targets should have lead computed when dropping bombs in AUTO -AUTO mode should compensate for wind

Edited September 9, 2020 by LastRifleRound

ANOTHER EDIT: What is meant by CCIP/Auto modes, second one on the list? CCIP and AUTO are implemented.

There are sub modes to both, depending on which source is used to calculate slant range to target. Sources in the Night Attack is the DMT/ARBS, radar altimeter, GPS altitude and barometric altitude. These exist in labels shown on the hud, but they don't actually do anything to the targeting right now.

YET ANOTHER EDIT: Should add the following: -DMT Tracked moving targets should have lead computed when dropping bombs in AUTO -AUTO mode should compensate for wind

 

I went with the short route and just covered these in "Realistic ARBS" because both are required to fulfill that.

Two things I see missing are:

- HUD FLIR overlay boresighting

- FLIR hotspot tracker

Two things I see missing are:

- HUD FLIR overlay boresighting

- FLIR hotspot tracker

 

The FLIR overlay is in the sim, unless it has been removed since I played around with it.

 

The hotspot tracker requires work on EDs side (new thermal view system) and is possibly the one thing Razbam has stated they are actually working on together with ED. But I will add it to the list too.

The FLIR overlay is in the sim, unless it has been removed since I played around with it.

 

The overlay is in, but not the ability to correct the offset of it.

 

 

Edit:

 

Nevermind, it's in, I'm dumb. Must've missed it in the changelogs.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Dzsekeb
I'm dumb

This might not be modelable since data for INS drift probably is classified, but I'm bringing it up anyway.

 

INS drift math model is available for free, scientists already did the hard job, it's not a black magic. There's no a single reason to not be modeled in game.

I copied this from the other thread. Looks like most of this is probably mentioned but in case it isn't I reposted it.

 

Here is a short list of systems that are now where near "complete". And this is not by any means an exhaustive list.

 

Weapon modes:

Dive-toss delivery mode (missing entirely)

ARBS wind correction mode. (and at a guess a TGP equivalent mode) (missing entirely)

Actual realistic ARBS "ranging of targets" with appropriate track rates not the current "magic" ranging. (same for TGP) (missing entirely)

Actual HOT errors/issues over rolling terrain being modeled. (missing entirely)

DMT sidewinder slew/track mode. (missing entirely)

TGP "resolution is too good" (relative to say the same pod on the hornet or viper)

DMT TV "resolution is too good"

 

Other stuff:

Various coordinate entry issues

INS drift if out of IFA.

Hotspot detector.

INS drift math model is available for free, scientists already did the hard job, it's not a black magic. There's no a single reason to not be modeled in game.

 

I have seen data for both INS drift with and without GPS/IFA. Available in that harrier TGP error doc.

What about the HUD hotspot detector that they teased during development? Would certainly make visual attacks much more possible without having to zoom in.

Even if you add false positives it would still help

 

That was the *ONE* feature about the Harrier I was most excited about when it was announced, given the difficulty of (ground) target spotting in VR (especially the CV1-generation).

Edited September 9, 2020 by Elysian Angel