My two cents about the turn this community is taking - ED Forums
 


Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2020, 04:33 PM   #1
Expert
Junior Member
 
Expert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Expert land
Posts: 52
Default My two cents about the turn this community is taking

This is the second time I am writing this message because the first one was deleted due to rule 1.2. This time I remove any reference that can be interpreted as offensive for some types of users, obviously this is a castration of freedom of speech since these users write falsehoods but are left to do as long as they protect the idea of buying to support.

Premise: I know I know, the older ones among you might tell me that it has always been like this, but I see that lately the situation is getting worse.

I will try to express myself in the least offensive way possible. Although I have recently joined, I have been reading the forum for years now. For some time now I have been noticing a certain bad behavior regarding various aspects of the sim from users. I find their "assertions" and "requests" to be counterproductive and above all wrong.

It is as if they did not understand that the beauty of this sim lies in the scientific reproduction of the reality of flight in combat aircraft that true enthusiasts love.
Let me give you some of the most famous claims i heard on the forum that if you let them go i'm afraid that will dirty the community of this beautiful simulator.
The thing that bothers me is that someone should remind us all of the way things are.

First thing I heard:
1) "I want my module to be competitive online" "It's not competitive enough online" "it's not competitive against..." "online is everything sp it doesn't matter ... etc .." (and they complain to the developers)

My two cents:
Let me explain what i think. First of all, you can't just expect that what you like is done, there are rules. A true flying enthusiast finds a way to become competitive by improving himself and just wants his modules to be as realistic as possible.
If you are shot down immediately it's your fault so pls stop asking devs to improve your favorite module just becouse you want to win with what you've buy.
Thx.

Second thing I heard:
2) "the avionics is the most important part" "the systems are not complete, don't fix the FM do the systems first!" "Will my module have this weapon at the exit?" "you can't have the feeling of the real pilot so you can't need to have a precise FM .. etc ..."

My two cents:
It is clear that some people don't care much about flight, more than anything else they prefer just pressing buttons and raising and lowering the cockpit levers.
Many time i read the most disparate excuses to discredit those who demand precision and realism from the FM by talking about things like the "feeling" of the pilot at the controls and then are the first who buys the hotas of the F16 with pressure sensor and two buttons useful only to the real pilot and not to simmers. I find this thing a little hypocritical if you allow me the expression.
So if you enjoy clicking to sporadically set the avionics of your module can at least remebrer that DCS is a flight simulator? Flight, not avionics simulator.
Thx.

Third thing I heard:
3) (I heard it so many times that I was almost convinced)
"ED need money so we must support it by buying modules in EA" "with EA they finance the module until it is completed" "if it were not for the EA would have nothing ... etc..."

My two cents:
My dear friends try to think about this:
In your opinion, who has to build the module to be able to do it at the beginning has only half of the documentation or has it all ready?
As we all know it is the second, so the EA is a way to skin chickens (sorry ED but I had to say it, you can't think everyone is blind or put their heads down.)

Let me think about this other thing: Even if it were a question of money (and if it is, it is partially), how much is your time spent playing DCS worth over a 3-5 year lifetime? Wouldn't it be better to wait 1 max 2 years putting aside some money to pay for a 200 bucks form but that is complete as we have never seen? Personally my years of life are worth, i don't know yours but mine are.

Fourth thing I heard:
4) (this is recent)
"ED and the third parties have agreed not to make the FM too realistic otherwise they could use it to know the true performance of the jet" (just )

Again my two cents:
The first time i found this assertion i asked myself just why?, and I'm still wondering why this nonsense .
If something is classified, is still classified, but you really think "they" can't reverse engineer or spy on confidential information? pls stop writing certain things just to excuse issues with the most important part, the FM.
Thx.

I would have others but in order not to dwell too much, take a look here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=283763
This guy has only expressed his legitimate and shared opinion and look at how many come out with looking not to argue his speech at all in order to defend what? we will never know becouse the post has been closed, of course

I don't mean to be rude but I consider this actions bad actions, and since we are still in a democratic regime with freedom of expression, I think i can express my point of view and expect responses and sensible interventions from those in charge that do not conceal the problems we are experiencing with a lack of clarity.

In conclusion, I urge the community to grow up, and to focus on what we should really ask for. Don't look to the future, think of the present, don't follow the hype because even though ED is making its way, practically everything it does has already been on the market for years now, there's nothing to celebrate.

We are not "bug testers/beta tester" we are buyers.

Thank you.

Last edited by Expert; 08-23-2020 at 11:14 PM.
Expert is offline  
Old 08-23-2020, 04:38 PM   #2
OPEC
Member
 
OPEC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Posts: 254
Default

Still the same opinion:

1.: yes

2.: yes

3.: Nope. EA is a valid way to finance your company and pay for stuff you can not sell. Dont like EA, dont use it. Besides - it safes a lot of money in terms of hireing beta testers.

4.: agree to parts of it.

And: its called open beta for a reason - see point three. Stick to stable if you mind helping out and get stuff earlier in return.

Oh - and i urge you to grow up, stop beeing bitter and take stuff as is is since you will not be able to change it anyway. There will be a lot of strange (in some eyes) requests here, and everyone of them has a valid point to who ever made that request. Not moaning about them is called respect. ED will decide what is good for DCS and what is not. So... yeah. And perhaps stop insulting people and admins because of the way they run that Board here. You can always go and use another one.

Gesendet von meinem SM-N975F mit Tapatalk
__________________
System: MSI MEG Z390 Godlike / I9-9900K @5.0 with full custom Watercooling / Gigabyte Geforce 2080Ti Waterforce / 4x 16 GB DDR 4@3200MHZ / Oculus Rift S / Thrustmaster Warthog / Thrustmaster Cougar MFD

Support your local Getränkemarkt

Last edited by OPEC; 08-23-2020 at 04:46 PM.
OPEC is offline  
Old 08-23-2020, 07:06 PM   #3
Expert
Junior Member
 
Expert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Expert land
Posts: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OPEC View Post
Still the same opinion:
3.: Nope. EA is a valid way to finance your company and pay for stuff you can not sell. Dont like EA, dont use it. Besides it safes a lot of money in terms of hireing beta testers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert View Post
.. so the EA is a way to skin chickens..
Thanks for responding
Thx dude for fully confirming what i was saying. I'm sure they are delighted that most of the user hates their wallet and does not value the life time lost behind the incompleteness of a module as precious. Nonetheless, the best psychoanalysts are behind these market tactics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OPEC View Post
...and i urge you to grow up, stop beeing bitter and take stuff as is is since you will not be able to change it anyway..... and everyone has a valid point to request... Not moaning about them is called respect... ED will decide what is good for DCS.... And perhaps stop insulting people and admins.... You can always go and use another one.
Here is the classic behavior I was talking about ... buying to support ... of course is your point of view.

You are making unproductive speeches and covering up my words, you must understand that I am not against betas, against EAs etc ...
The problem I have pointed out is another. I am against "ideas and words" of users who do not realize that everything has become a perennial EA that often comes out rather incomplete at the beginning (see f-16) and despite this they pretend that everyone agrees that this is the best way. They feel part of the devs, we are not, we are just buyers.

As for the so-called insults, i realize they may seem so, i apologize for that, but how should i define a fanboy attitude if not as a child's attitude?
I mean these are things that exist in all sectors, are we really getting to the point where we can't talk about them anymore?
There is a lot of hypocrisy and narcissism behind these alleged post.
The psychological part of a (all)community is important, in addition to the fact that free expression can only help.
So censoring me and letting people reply to posts like in the link i post above leaves me with a clear insight into what this forum is becoming. Just my freedom of speech.

Have a nice day.

Last edited by Expert; 08-23-2020 at 07:17 PM.
Expert is offline  
Old 08-23-2020, 07:16 PM   #4
Gladman
Senior Member
 
Gladman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kitscoty, AB
Posts: 1,517
Default

I used to buy to support, the Hawk cured me of that.
__________________
i9 9900K @ 5.1Ghz - ASUS Maximus Hero XI - 32GB 4266 DDR4 RAM - ASUS RTX 2080Ti - 1 TB NVME - NZXT Kraken 62 Watercooling System - Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas (Virpil Base) - MFG Crosswind Pedals - Pimax 5K+
VFA-25 Fist Of The Fleet
http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic99190_2.gif
Gladman is offline  
Old 08-23-2020, 07:24 PM   #5
Paganus
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: KPDK
Posts: 884
Default

You proclaim the right to freely post what you want to say, while decrying what others post.

Perhaps IRONY would have been a better callsign than EXPERT.
Paganus is offline  
Old 08-23-2020, 07:31 PM   #6
OPEC
Member
 
OPEC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Posts: 254
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert View Post
Thanks for responding
Thx dude for fully confirming what i was saying. I'm sure they are delighted that most of the user hates their wallet and does not value the life time lost behind the incompleteness of a module as precious. Nonetheless, the best psychoanalysts are behind these market tactics.


Here is the classic behavior I was talking about ... buying to support ... of course is your point of view.

You are making unproductive speeches and covering up my words, you must understand that I am not against betas, against EAs etc ...
The problem I have pointed out is another. I am against "ideas and words" of users who do not realize that everything has become a perennial EA that often comes out rather incomplete at the beginning (see f-16) and despite this they pretend that everyone agrees that this is the best way. They feel part of the devs, we are not, we are just buyers.

As for the so-called insults, i realize they may seem so, i apologize for that, but how should i define a fanboy attitude if not as a child's attitude?
I mean these are things that exist in all sectors, are we really getting to the point where we can't talk about them anymore?
There is a lot of hypocrisy and narcissism behind these alleged DCS post.
The psychological part of a (all)community is important, in addition to the fact that free expression can only help.
So censoring me and letting people reply to posts like in the link i post above leaves me with a clear insight into what this forum is becoming. Just my freedom of speech.

Have a nice day.
First of all, stop calling me "dude". Im not your "dude" by any means.

The thing is: you can talk about you. You can not talk for me or other users. So if we (the mayority of the users) do not have a problem with buying feature incomplete modules because we want to - thats just how it is. And its not like its a big surprise to anyone. I knew that the F-16 was incomplete. And yes - the F-16 was a bit of a clusterf... but i guess ED learned a valuable lesson.

I or we, whatever term you like do not feel as part of the devs, but as part of a community, ok? We are passionate about what we like. So naturally we like to support the developers. Does it mean i welcome everything ED does or decides? Hell no. Does it mean i buy everthing released? 'course not. I buy what i like to support. I hate Warbirds, I hate their helicopter choices so i have nothing WWII related and no helicopters. Until they release one i like. That one i will then buy happily to support the devs. Easy as that.

As for defining a fanboy attitude - passion would be the right word for it - nothing to do with beeing childish or what ever. Passion and caring about something you like.

We can talk about anything, but there is more to it then just one valid opinion.

And for your beloved freedom of speech: Muahahahaha!!!

Gesendet von meinem SM-N975F mit Tapatalk
__________________
System: MSI MEG Z390 Godlike / I9-9900K @5.0 with full custom Watercooling / Gigabyte Geforce 2080Ti Waterforce / 4x 16 GB DDR 4@3200MHZ / Oculus Rift S / Thrustmaster Warthog / Thrustmaster Cougar MFD

Support your local Getränkemarkt
OPEC is offline  
Old 08-23-2020, 07:32 PM   #7
Mr. Big.”Biggs”
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 462
Default

Placed on ignore....
__________________
I9 (5Ghz turbo)2080ti 64Gb 3200 ram. 3 drives. A sata 2tb storage and 2 M.2 drives. 1 is 1tb, 1 is 500gb.
Valve Index, Virpil t50 cm2 stick, t50 base and v3 throttle w mini stick. MFG crosswind pedals.
Mr. Big.”Biggs” is offline  
Old 08-23-2020, 07:45 PM   #8
Rudel_chw
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Antofagasta, Chile
Posts: 7,130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert View Post
... This time I remove any reference that can be interpreted as offensive for some types of users, obviously this is a castration of freedom of speech
...
I don't mean to be rude but I consider this actions bad actions, and since we are still in a democratic regime with freedom of expression, I think i can express my point of view
...
I wonder if you really understand your terms: fredom of speech and freedom of expression are civil rights, exercised on public places or media.

Here you are on a private Forum, which you are granted access only if you accept to abide by the Forum rules:

https://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en

So, please stop trying to victimize yourself .. no one forbids you to have your own views on these matters, but you should give the same privilege to other forum members.

__________________
For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra
For Gaming: 27" Monitor - Ryzen 1500X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Windows 10 Pro - Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1
Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB
Rudel_chw is offline  
Old 08-23-2020, 07:47 PM   #9
Rudel_chw
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Antofagasta, Chile
Posts: 7,130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Big.”Biggs” View Post
Placed on ignore....
I’m on the verge of doing the same, as I really don’t like to read the writings of negative people.
__________________
For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra
For Gaming: 27" Monitor - Ryzen 1500X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Windows 10 Pro - Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1
Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB
Rudel_chw is offline  
Old 08-23-2020, 08:20 PM   #10
Buzzles
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 2,746
Default

So, lemme get this straight, you've been reading for years but not actively contributing, and now come along to preach to the "community" about how they should act and respond?

You've had all those years you've been reading to jump in and start being the change you want to see. To guide people and discussions, to correct and to teach, but you did not.
Instead you'd rather just decry "the community"at large but still distance yourself, not get involved and not try and improve it?

G'luck on that high horse of yours.
Buzzles is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:08 PM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.