[REPORTED]All-seeing AI

Well, since according to Nineline, ED is not aware of any problems in this area, here's a little summary of the current state of AI:

-AI immediately starts dropping chaff and evasive maneouvers even if attacked BVR with an active missile in TWS (AIM-54, LD-10, AIM-120)

-AI knows exactly which of them is being fired upon, even if flying close formation.

-It knows immediately if it's attacked with heater or radar missile and starts releasing correct countermeasures in the exact moment the missile leaves the rail.

-It immediately reacts even to IR missiles fired from behind

Attached are a few tracks that show the issues.

F14.trk

JF17.trk

F18_3.trk

yes, had this experience last night infact, interesting tacview, launching in SAM mode and watch the targets start dumping CM and going defensive notch immediately.

makes tactics pointless, hopefully one day the AI will get tuned to being believable...

I can add that AI will track you behind a hills/mountain even if you change direction.

If after detection, you go into the beam at BVR range, the AI won't engage you, but will keep pointing the nose constantly tracking on you.

If after detection, you go into the beam at BVR range, the AI won't engage you, but will keep pointing the nose constantly tracking on you.

The AI knows better than to waste a missile on someone who's so close to notching :-)

just lmao

Cheating AI isn't a bug.....okay.....so much for "single player focus."

Hi all

 

Just checked with the team

 

AI will react to missiles within a 10nm range.

 

thanks

In all of the attached tracks, the AI is reacting to missile launches well above 10nm. In TWS!

Come on ED ... this is expression of some serious BUGs !!

AI fighters shouldn't react like this when fired on by a Fox3 with a TWS lock !

You cannot tag this thread as [NO BUG] and never push it towards the Dev Team ...I can't believe that !?!

The main objective of ED & Custormers is Realism with this Sim ... !

... so please alert the Devs. on what should be done to correct this aberation !!!

Hi all

 

Just checked with the team

 

AI will react to missiles within a 10nm range.

 

thanks

Honestly this is a very insulting reply. The AI reacts from further out than 10nm range, and that can easily be tested. I'll just attach an extra tacview, track and screenshot. Hopefully that''ll be enough evidence for you to look into it.

This clearly shows a ~30nm Phoenix shot, against which the AI starts chaffing immediately. The launch was in TWS as you can see from the track, so it should not have been aware of my launching at all.

Track and Tacview here (the files are too large to be attached):

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ogkN3qLZxlZ4cvFZQ-SBK-CKCGVmjsIU

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mc1A1F1kYPuOpucse_AL5aLE1hS67Egs

If this is the kind of feedback people get when reporting legitimate, easily replicated bugs, why would people even report bugs in the first place?

I believe the logic is missile within 10km or half the missiles range, whichever one comes first.. So if a Phoenix is within say 50nm it probably triggers them

 

If this is the kind of feedback people get when reporting legitimate, easily replicated bugs, why would people even report bugs in the first place?

yeah, it is a bit that way.

it happens well outside of 10nm,

I'm new to DSC, and as much as I'm absolutely loving it, these core issues, and the complete lack of motivation to fix them, really make me wonder why I bother. Sometimes I fell I should just save myself the frustration and go use the other sim, who's core functions not only work, but are far beyond what's available here.

The F-18 track the AI are reacting to the missile inside 10nm, I am not measuring from launch, I am measuring from when the SU-25 start to use chaff.

 

That is not true, according to Tacview the AI starts dropping chaff at 12 nm, which is immediately after launch. It won't be hard to test again at higher altitude and closure speeds to check how it behaves when launched further away.

In case of Tomcat it was a launch from above 30 nm. Again, AI chaffing immediately.

Exactly, chaffing starts as soon as the missile is off the rail. Besides, why would they react when the missile is halfway through its flight, if the missile is a Fox 3? They shouldn't have any indication yet.

The F-14 track does not play back correctly for me.

Of course it doesn't, F-14 tracks notoriously bug out. That's why I have also attached a screenshot and Tacview file.

Yeah, the "half the missile range" notification for the AI is rather nonsensical.

Well, since according to Nineline, ED is not aware of any problems in this area, here's a little summary of the current state of AI:

 

-AI immediately starts dropping chaff and evasive maneouvers even if attacked BVR with an active missile in TWS (AIM-54, LD-10, AIM-120)

-AI knows exactly which of them is being fired upon, even if flying close formation.

-It knows immediately if it's attacked with heater or radar missile and starts releasing correct countermeasures in the exact moment the missile leaves the rail.

-It immediately reacts even to IR missiles fired from behind

 

Attached are a few tracks that show the issues.

I reported this during the LOMAC beta.

They also know all this during pitch black darkness and through overcast.

There are two sides to the coin, when you think about it....

If you make em react only to missile launches when they get an RWR warning you will be making them pretty stupid and easy targets.

On the other side you have them reacting as they do now, which could lead to ridiculous situations

There needs to be a balance, a smart AI of some sort, which I don't know if we have available

There are two sides to the coin, when you think about it....

 

If you make em react only to missile launches when they get an RWR warning you will be making them pretty stupid and easy targets.

 

On the other side you have them reacting as they do now, which could lead to ridiculous situations

 

There needs to be a balance, a smart AI of some sort, which I don't know if we have available

There are far better ways to implement this than now, or even the "10nm or half way to target, whichever happens first".

For example, one could easily tell the AI to chaff if either the missile is spiking the rwr, or the range is, say, 10nm*(altitude in tens of thousands of feet)*(some skill coefficient), where the skill coefficient could be e.g. 0.7 for average, 0.9 for good, 1.1 for high, 1.3 for excellent. You can then implement the same check, but to go defensive rather than chaff, at shorter range (say, 5 nm times those same coefficients).

You are still comparing a fixed condition (10 nm, or missile on the rwr) to a fixed range (my simple formula for the skill level vs half the launch distance).

There are far better ways to implement this than now, or even the "10nm or half way to target, whichever happens first".

 

 

 

For example, one could easily tell the AI to chaff if either the missile is spiking the rwr, or the range is, say, 10nm*(altitude in tens of thousands of feet)*(some skill coefficient), where the skill coefficient could be e.g. 0.7 for average, 0.9 for good, 1.1 for high, 1.3 for excellent. You can then implement the same check, but to go defensive rather than chaff, at shorter range (say, 5 nm times those same coefficients).

 

 

You are still comparing a fixed condition (10 nm, or missile on the rwr) to a fixed range (my simple formula for the skill level vs half the launch distance).

I am only displaying both sides, not taking one and as far as I see in this thread, I don't see anyone suggesting a solution, except "AI no defend"

There are two sides to the coin, when you think about it....

 

If you make em react only to missile launches when they get an RWR warning you will be making them pretty stupid and easy targets......

 

So....giving them a realistic response to a missile specifically launched in a non-active radar mode that gives no launch (FCR activation) warning to the target aircraft until the actual missile radar goes active at very short range.....is making them stupid and easy targets?

Thats the WHOLE POINT of using that radar mode to launch in, and the reason for it's existance!

You don't fire weapons and try to kill people and give them as much help as possible and 'not too easy'. You make it as easy on you and as unfair on them as absolutely possible! None of this 1v1 mano e' mano fair fight crap - you fight 3v1 and destroy them.

I realise you are just trying to make an argument for the current behaviour, it was just a very poor one.

Perhaps AI would be better off reacting to player aircraft within MRM launch range by precautionary chaffing and offsetting/notching at a reasonable rate (like the player has to) and launching on/processing their targets as they close, instead of reacting instantly to a specific BVR missile launch by using 'the force'.