New AIM120 Changes

This is a nice surprise ED! Thanks.

But can't help but ask myself?

Are there still planned changes to be made on January as explained by Wags recently? For example regarding Lofting logic and navigation logic.

Regards,

Real AMRAAM has two active states:

HPRF - high pulse repetition frequency, so called "Husky", bigger range, but less accurate

MPRF - medium pulse repetition frequency, so called "Pitbull", smaller range but able to track targets close to notch filter

In DCS AMRAAM has only one active state: MPRF "Pitbull"

So i guess they will make some significant update.

Is this confirmed?

Noone from ED mentioned any details, we really don't know how deep they want to go.

Funny thing is I just tested aim-120B,and overall in level flight it's worse. Missile bleeds a bit less, but top speed is worse. Not sure if with maneuvering target it will do better or not.

Funny thing is I just tested aim-120B,and overall in level flight it's worse. Missile bleeds a bit less, but top speed is worse. Not sure if with maneuvering target it will do better or not.

The aim120c on the other hand i got 3 kills out of 3 shots in a different server, all around 12 miles, it actually seems like a bit better in range though it could be placebo effect ofc.

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Level flight:

Did the changelog mention something about increased launch ranges? More like decreased..

A bit dissapointing then, that does not reflect a 10/20% increase in range not even a 1%/2%...

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Unfortunately, 10-20% range increase is not enough.

Ignoring the charts showing decreased range, 10-20% non maneuvering range increase could be very significant because drag and lift were improved.

The maneuvering target range could have increased much more because decreased drag and increased lift compound with each other for a bigger effect. It could improve the loft performance as the current sharp turn out of loft will either be quicker thanks to increased lift, less draggy due to lowered drag, or both.

I think the missiles are better. I'm seeing the ability to take valid shots from further away than previously possible on maneuvering targets, with a Pk of .6-.8 depending on range and shot technique.

Much more testing underway #williamtell

I tested a little bit with the AIM-120C in the Hornet and I observed two things:

1. The missile is less draggy than before, leading to increased range. Depends on the scenario, of course, but for head-on shots, I had definitely more success than before, everything else being equal (speed, altitude, target aspect etc).

2. If the missile lofts, it'll sometimes exit the loft very aggressively. I didn't determine if this was due to it going Pitbull (which is sometimes accompanied by an aggressive pull towards the target) or not. On one occasion, it lofted very much and ended up missing the target completely because it kept going up. It looked like it went ballistic early on, but I maintained lock on the target.

I've shot more than 15 aim120 in blue flag, all over Mach 1 shot at less than 10-12 miles head on, the results have been really poor with only 3 kills even one non maneuvering target running away at 3.5 miles.

 

The aim120c on the other hand i got 3 kills out of 3 shots in a different server, all around 12 miles, it actually seems like a bit better in range though it could be placebo effect ofc.

 

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This is rather unfortunate, In multiplayer I get many kills from 13-16nm out. If I'm flying at 50k alt then I can manage 20-25nm...

A skilled pilot can avoid these shots though, so it depends on your luck and planning at the end of the day.

I didn't see much difference with the 120B on nonmaneuver target, however with the 120C how do you explain that:

- "AIM-120C: reduced subsonic and transonic zero-lift drag, reduced lift-induced drag, increased lift"

results in decreased acceleration and peak mach? I'm no expert but reducing some aspects of drag while keeping everything else the same should result in better acceleration and top speed?

I didn't see much difference with the 120B on nonmaneuver target, however with the 120C how do you explain that:

 

- "AIM-120C: reduced subsonic and transonic zero-lift drag, reduced lift-induced drag, increased lift"

 

results in decreased acceleration and peak mach? I'm no expert but reducing some aspects of drag while keeping everything else the same should result in better acceleration and top speed?

Have you experienced a lower peak mach in the 120C? That would be indeed odd.

Have you experienced a lower peak mach in the 120C? That would be indeed odd.

Same results as you can see on the chart on the previous page across all altitudes on M0.9 nonmanevuering target shot at Rmax. Peak mach typically 5-10% worse after update.

Is there any estimation other than next year when other missiles (especially the R-27) will follow?

The R-27 really suffers when maneuvering, and it stalls much sooner than the Aim-120 when it should be the other way around.

FYI: Growling Sidewinder put a decent

Is there any estimation other than next year when other missiles (especially the R-27) will follow?

Nick Grey has commented on that on Reddit:

Dear Sir and Community members, many thanks for your support and feedback. Please note that the SD-10 also has WIP issues, especially pertaining to drag, both parasitic and induced. We are finishing the full Flow Dynamics on this and other missiles in order to have a detailed discussion with our good friends at DEKA and HB in the near future. FYI we use both Ansys Fluent and Flow Vision software for our FM calculations for both AC and missiles. In Q1 of 2020, we plan to make available all our CFD calculations, performance graphs and data sets for most of our missiles and AC in DCS. We have set ourselves a hard target of delivering to you the most reliable and precise missile FM and guidance laws in order to put any uncertainty or lack of clarity to bed. This work is being done with the assistance of all our SME's and 'friends' in industry and while not all data is openly available, our aerodynamics and missile specialists will deliver a very scientific report for those of you who wish to cross-examine our calculations and findings in detail. Our goal is to move closer and closer to reality where and when possible and to deliver enhanced combat realism and customer satisfaction. That goes for airframe aerodynamics, engines and systems as well. We know we have a long way to go but we are committed to continuing in this direction with purpose. Once again thanks to you and all our passionate community we hope to achieve a level of excellence which may be up to your expectations. We really appreciate your commitment and devotion to DCS, thank you again. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your families. Kind regards, Nick

AIM-120C got significantly lower subsonic and transonic drag but slightly higher supersonic drag. So, the max speed can be slightly lower.

But the main thing is that the missile got significantly less inductive drag, which gives a noticeable advantage in range to maneuverable targets.

The patch notes say nothing about increasing high supersonic drag. What else changed?

Nick Grey has commented on that on Reddit:

 

Thanks, sounds like we don't have to wait for that long!

AIM-120C got significantly lower subsonic and transonic drag but slightly higher supersonic drag. So, the max speed can be slightly lower.

But the main thing is that the missile got significantly less inductive drag, which gives a noticeable advantage in range to maneuverable targets.

Thanks for the reply Chizh. Does DCS still not modify drag for the motor on condition? If I recall it doesn't, and this results in higher drag during initial acceleration. If this is still the case, is this planned to be changed with coming missile updates?

Nothing more.

The supersonic drag changed in several percents only.

I don't understand. The patch notes say only sub- and transonic zero lift drag, lift induced drag and lift was changed. You say there was nothing more than that but you also state it has "higher supersonic" drag, your wording is unclear.

Did this happen now?

- If yes that explains why the missile can only accelerate slower and reach lower peak mach.

- If not then what is is the cause? The only answer I can think of is that the summarized effect of reduced drag and increased lift results in a net gain of drag at supersonic speeds.

I understand that performance against maneuvering target is probably better but unfortunately I don't have a way of reliably comparing it. For non maneuvering I do and that's why I'm asking because I don't understand the data I got after testing it all across between 0 to 40k ft and compared old and new versions.