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Old 09-19-2019, 02:18 AM   #81
CoBlue
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Yes, that is exactly it! Could the rattle be amp-ed just slightly at lower AoA?
And go against SMEs advice....?
The airframe shaking & aural feedback is much better now IMHO.
Before it was to early & felt misleading. The plane started to shake like crazy at 15 AoA during Case I/III. Now it starts just before the edge of high & excessive AoA.
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:11 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by captain_dalan View Post
The high g situations are no issue. Plenty of feedback there, both in shape of g-lock and aircraft screeching. It is the lack of such feedback during zero air speed and alpha induced stalls that bothers me. How would you solve the issue (in a limited budget case)?



Yes, that is exactly it! Could the rattle be amp-ed just slightly at lower AoA?


That's transitional alpha, you need to be in a post stall regime to experience that (your wings stalled, but your body still producing some lift).



My recommendation sir...buy a jetseat and you will feel more of what it is you are looking for.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:20 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by captain_dalan View Post
It is the lack of such feedback during zero air speed and alpha induced stalls that bothers me. How would you solve the issue (in a limited budget case)?
Afaik there's plenty of visual and instrument cues in this regimes if it's not already rattling all over the place.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:56 AM   #84
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Im not sure what the problem is, im pulling AOA based on the gauge and the G meter. I can imagine this is a problem for those not using VR, but its certainly not if you have one on. The G gauge and the AOA gauge are 2 of the most easily readable even in VR.


Its got easier to manoeuvre IMHO. Or maybe I just got better. last night I did a beauful loop, found a hapless Su27 stuggling with maintaining speed in a climb, and I sawed his wing off with the 20mm. Thats with the cues as they are. Im not mocking those who use the cues, other than to say, I cant see you really need them unless you are really are doing something the Tomcat doesnt like, and most times you really shouldnt be at that end of the envelope.


Just my view FWIW. Though I agree, a feedback seat WOULD probably prove useful. has anyone got any examples you can recommend on Amazon?
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:07 AM   #85
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Im not sure what the problem is, im pulling AOA based on the gauge and the G meter. I can imagine this is a problem for those not using VR, but its certainly not if you have one on. The G gauge and the AOA gauge are 2 of the most easily readable even in VR.
If you ever dogfight you would know that most of the time you look in different direction than your front panel. And when you do look up front you don't need to look at AoA or G gauges anymore. btw: I always struggle to find the G meter, that's how often I use it

Try something harder than AI Su-27 and try to stay around the corner speed looking at the enemy all the time.
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:29 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by draconus View Post
If you ever dogfight you would know that most of the time you look in different direction than your front panel. And when you do look up front you don't need to look at AoA or G gauges anymore. btw: I always struggle to find the G meter, that's how often I use it

Try something harder than AI Su-27 and try to stay around the corner speed looking at the enemy all the time.
Yeah the G meter is not situated very well, which is another one of the reasons why I'd love the Sparrowhawk HUD

That said the AoA strip & Mach meter is your best friend when dogfighting in the F-14, pull 17 units AoA to lose speed, 15-16 units to maintain it, and don't drop below 0.5 Mach, then you're good.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:02 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by draconus View Post
If you ever dogfight you would know that most of the time you look in different direction than your front panel. And when you do look up front you don't need to look at AoA or G gauges anymore. btw: I always struggle to find the G meter, that's how often I use it

Try something harder than AI Su-27 and try to stay around the corner speed looking at the enemy all the time.

I spend a lot of time on the dogfight server on multiplayer. This wasnt an AI Su27, this was a real player, who proceeded to beat me in a couple of other engagements. The glory of that turn and burn still remains however.



I would be the first to admit its not ideally situated, but both are big gauges you know. The G gauge in particular you dont even really need to read the number to see where the gauge is pointing. The speed gauge is even harder to miss.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:06 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Hummingbird View Post
Yeah the G meter is not situated very well, which is another one of the reasons why I'd love the Sparrowhawk HUD

That said the AoA strip & Mach meter is your best friend when dogfighting in the F-14, pull 17 units AoA to lose speed, 15-16 units to maintain it, and don't drop below 0.5 Mach, then you're good.

Yeah, thats pretty much my stance on it. In fact, if you dont alter the axis of the joystick, you can figure out what kind of aoa you are going to have from stick deflection at a certain speed. I practiced going around in a 15AOA turn at about 350 knots, just so I could know what kind of stick deflection it was. Probably more difficult in a modified stick where the base is on the floor I imagine, but real pilots develop muscle memory too.


I always thought the vibration was too severe. I couldn't imagine why it would be shaking THAT much if the airframe was working as advertised. I would imagine its only substantial drag and disturbed airflow that would cause it.
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Old 09-19-2019, 03:14 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by CoBlue View Post
And go against SMEs advice....?
The airframe shaking & aural feedback is much better now IMHO.
Before it was to early & felt misleading. The plane started to shake like crazy at 15 AoA during Case I/III. Now it starts just before the edge of high & excessive AoA.
Switch flipping audio, button clicking audio, afterburner detent audio, heck even afterburner blowing audio are all over pronounced. They are louder then the ICS mate. Do you think it was really so in the real jet? But i don't mind, in fact, IMO the module is better for all of that. It is the only jet in DCS that i own that doesn't feel "sterile". So why not amp the rattling sound as well?

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Originally Posted by jv44bubi View Post
My recommendation sir...buy a jetseat and you will feel more of what it is you are looking for.
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Originally Posted by stuart666 View Post
I can imagine this is a problem for those not using VR, but its certainly not if you have one on. The G gauge and the AOA gauge are 2 of the most easily readable even in VR.
Well guys, my birthday was less then a month ago, but i'm still accepting gifts

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Originally Posted by draconus View Post
Afaik there's plenty of visual and instrument cues in this regimes if it's not already rattling all over the place.
If you like i can make a video about it, but right now it is possible to find your self 0 airspeed nose high without intent and without a hint from the jet you are bleeding energy. It kinda depends on your loadout, but it can happen. It's not impossible to fly mind you, a 3-4 more hours in it and the hands will get used to it, but the joy of it is gone. The feedback is gone. She responds to your commands, but doesn't react to them. Not a native English speaker, so i don't know if i'm putting it into words right.

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Originally Posted by stuart666 View Post
Im not sure what the problem is, im pulling AOA based on the gauge and the G meter....
....I would be the first to admit its not ideally situated, but both are big gauges you know. The G gauge in particular you dont even really need to read the number to see where the gauge is pointing. The speed gauge is even harder to miss.
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Originally Posted by Hummingbird View Post
Yeah the G meter is not situated very well, which is another one of the reasons why I'd love the Sparrowhawk HUD

That said the AoA strip & Mach meter is your best friend when dogfighting in the F-14, pull 17 units AoA to lose speed, 15-16 units to maintain it, and don't drop below 0.5 Mach, then you're good.
Mates, TBH hones you must be fighting in very weird way......

Or as Draconus said it even better:

Quote:
Originally Posted by draconus View Post
If you ever dogfight you would know that most of the time you look in different direction than your front panel. And when you do look up front you don't need to look at AoA or G gauges anymore. btw: I always struggle to find the G meter, that's how often I use it
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:31 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by captain_dalan View Post
So from my perspective, the best workaround would to add some kind of audio cues, like the airframe squicking when under high g i.e. to the different states the plane is in? Or maybe bring back the rattle? What do you guys think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_dalan View Post
Yes, that is exactly it! Could the rattle be amp-ed just slightly at lower AoA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_dalan View Post
So why not amp the rattling sound as well?
Dude, you've got to decide! 1:st you wanted to "add audio cues" & was proven wrong, then "amp just slightly at lower AoA", wrong again! & now it's "amp the rattling sound"???

Yes a bit higher rattling sound is ok, but the rest is up to SMEs. Let the SMEs do their job!
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