Game functionnality for ww2

Hello,

I start DCS because of ww2 modules a lot of years ago. At first there was the work to have the 2.5 and the new engine wich is nice and now there is new priority to make DCS better and better. But after all those years, i'm a bit sad that DCS didn't add some important content to the game that all the other ww2 flight sim have since the beginning.

All the ww2 module are really nice and I hope the damage model will be great. I'm really happy to see more warplane to arrive in DCS as i have all of them. But there is some content that really miss to fly with those ww2 planes.

• Cloud sync : It's one of the most important think that DCS ww2 miss. Using clouds to hide and evade from enemy attack is one of the most important part of the gameplay in ww2 plane.
  
• Gun convergence point : Like the trim on Bf 109, why not making an option in the setup section of each plane with the horizontal and vertical gun convergence point ?
  
• Visibility of plane : Those plane don't have radar / hud / ... but nothing is made to have a good visibility. Flying with "dot label" is really boring because you can see trough everything. Here we fly with some friend and after taking off, while making circle aroud the base, it's quite difficult to see a plane at the same altitude if it's more than 1 Nm away without label on. I know there are difference between VR and non-vr people. But it's something that is really needed.
  

I'm sure those were aked before but is their something you can tell about ? I hope it's on your "to do list" because it's a big "-" for a lot of people who hesitate between DCS ww2 and other ww2 sim. I could understand that the damage model is the priority for ww2 planes now. But those should be the next one.

Thanks. :pilotfly:

Hope it's clear, I'm not english :)

The convergence or “harmonization” was not adjustable on some of these planes like the P-51. It was preset with the gunsight. There are some good discussions in that forum section.

For visibility of distant aircraft, try using the zoom view command.

Too bad that zoom does not actually solve any of the inherent visibility problems and imbalances of the DCS engine (and that it has to resort to such simplifications to begin with). At least ED has acknowledged it and are working on a solution.

@SharpeXB Not all the plane had the possibility to calibrate gun. But I16, Bf 109, Fw190 A and Spitfire should have it. I agree that it should be better for plane with gyro gunsight to not have this option (Fw190 D9 and last version of P51).

At short distance like 1 Nm you should see plane without zoom. And you should be able to see clearly a plane when at the same altitude : Black dot on clear blue sky.

@Tippis Hope they will solve it soon :)

At short distance like 1 Nm you should see plane without zoom. And you should be able to see clearly a plane when at the same altitude : Black dot on clear blue sky.

The WWII aircraft are very visible to me at this range. Everyone’s results with this seem to vary. It depends on your screen size, settings, resolution etc. ED is certainly working to improve this. It’s been discussed a lot here if you search for the topic.

It depends of the screen but it's not good to have plane who disapear at short distance. It's hard for lot of people to see other plane when making circle around an airfield whith a nice weather. Something is wrong with that. Plane are visible at really short range but at one point (depends of your screen or if you have VR) the plane diseapear.

Not asking to see 30 km around me. But it would be great to improve that.

It depends of the screen but it's not good to have plane who disapear at short distance. It's hard for lot of people to see other plane when making circle around an airfield whith a nice weather. Something is wrong with that. Plane are visible at really short range but at one point (depends of your screen or if you have VR) the plane diseapear.

 

Not asking to see 30 km around me. But it would be great to improve that.

Again what helps is a little zoom view. If you lose something in the contrast or whatever, change your FOV a bit. Even just a little will help you keep track of a contact. I have never see an aircraft literally “disappear” at close range, I do lose track of them all the time but it’s not an easy task. That’s me, nothing wrong with the game.

There are other aspects in the sim I think could be better for the WWII era:

- Authentic language radio speech & comms

- A wounded effect on the pilot. Not much of a factor in modern missile combat but in WWII guns combat it seems odd not to have.

Again what helps is a little zoom view. If you lose something in the contrast or whatever, change your FOV a bit. Even just a little will help you keep track of a contact. I have never see an aircraft literally “disappear” at close range, I do lose track of them all the time but it’s not an easy task. That’s me, nothing wrong with the game.

 

There are other aspects in the sim I think could be better for the WWII era:

- Authentic language radio speech & comms

- A wounded effect on the pilot. Not much of a factor in modern missile combat but in WWII guns combat it seems odd not to have.

Those two are important too. I hope to see "pilot damage" arrive with the damage model.

But I didn't agree with the fact it's the most needed thing in DCS ww2.

For distance of view, i'm not talking about the fact that plane disapear when you are really close to them (like in dogfight). I think it's pretty good a this range. But if you consider that is close. Then I'm talking about middle range. When plane are in the same sector but you can't see them correctly without label.

It's correct to have difficulty to see plane, but at some range there is not even a dot to spot in the sky. That should be improve.

with the horizontal and vertical gun convergence point?

Because it wasn't changed on a whim IRL either, and the vast majority of RL pilots had to settle for a default configuration plane as well. What's good for the goose... ;)

It was modified by pilot on base.

But I agree not for gyro gunsight plane.

Regardless, it wasn't common by any means and very few pilots or units actually changed theirs. But a moot point since we're not going to get the option anyway.

What they are doing in that photo is zeroing the guns at a preset standard target and range. Correct? The photo doesn’t necessarily mean they are custom ranging the guns for every individual pilot.

I have heard a Spitfire pilot from the BoB mentioning he had his guns set for a certain range.

The actual practice and employment if this was quite complicated IRL I’m sure.

When plane are in the same sector but you can't see them correctly without label.

 

It's correct to have difficulty to see plane, but at some range there is not even a dot to spot in the sky. That should be improve.

It’s hard to define in a game on a PC screen, what “see them correctly” means.

The trouble with the “dot in the sky” is that depending on your resolution, that dot can be visible for 30 miles in DCS

THIS would be the best thing ED could implement to resolve much of the problem

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173243&highlight=HDR+video

For what it's worth, it is possible for entire ships (as in the watery kind) in DCS to literally become invisible at rather close ranges depending on viewing angle. Planes move to quickly for me to reliably judge that.

True ... Trigonometry was dicovered only after ww2 ... I forgot that ... :smartass:

(* read the description of those videos *)

http://www.rafcommands.com/archive/02487.php

source : https://books.google.be/books?id=UWncIUNVZ2sC&pg=PT190&lpg=PT190&dq=gun+harmonisation+P51&source=bl&ots=rnqWkVJi0t&sig=ACfU3U3r_X77PmvVPjMEiF6kUTtxpjJsNg&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjN6-COxrniAhWKKlAKHauTDCsQ6AEwEXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=gun%20harmonisation%20P51&f=false

It's one of the easiest thing to modify on a plane I think. I don't say it took 10 minutes to change it. But stop thinking it wasn't common.

Probably it wasn't for new pilots. As they never shoot on a plane, how could they have a favorite convergence point. But old pilots (officier / aces / ...) had some preference and modify them.

But apparently, even if their was standard convergence, their was more than one choice :

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Gun_harmonisation

So ... Even if we can't modify it as we wish ... We should have the choice between some harmonisation patern. But I still think that it would be better to choice which horizontal / vertical convergence we prefer on each plane (from X meter to X meters)

For what it's worth, it is possible for entire ships (as in the watery kind) in DCS to literally become invisible at rather close ranges depending on viewing angle. Planes move to quickly for me to reliably judge that.

It's true that it depends of the angle. And I think that DCS is really nice at a really close distance like in dogfight. Ennemy can diseappear easily because they vanish in the dark ground or because they move quicly. But that's not the problem I tried to explain.

Maybe My english turn it wrong ^^

I just think that the visual on plane at some distance should be better. It's really hard to spot plane when in cruise if they are at more than 1 nm (more or less I don't measure precisly). Even if the plane should be a black dot in clear sky, it seems that there is no dot or a so little dot that you can't spot him.

To answer to the answer i will get again : "yeah yeah I can zoom and make all the flight like that ... but it's not an answer. If i'm so wrong to ask for a better visibility, why there are always labels on ww2 servers ?"

I'm asking to have something better to not have to use labels anymore on those server.

Not something that would be the same for everyone because I know it's impossible (screen size / VR / ... ) But something better.

It's true that it depends of the angle. And I think that DCS is really nice at a really close distance like in dogfight. Ennemy can diseappear easily because they vanish in the dark ground or because they move quicly. But that's not the problem I tried to explain.

Maybe My english turn it wrong ^^

 

I just think that the visual on plane at some distance should be better. It's really hard to spot plane when in cruise if they are at more than 1 nm (more or less I don't measure precisly). Even if the plane should be a black dot in clear sky, it seems that there is no dot or a so little dot that you can't spot him.

 

To answer to the answer i will get again : "yeah yeah I can zoom and make all the flight like that ... but it's not an answer. If i'm so wrong to ask for a better visibility, why there are always labels on ww2 servers ?"

 

I'm asking to have something better to not have to use labels anymore on those server.

Not something that would be the same for everyone because I know it's impossible (screen size / VR / ... ) But something better.

I'm afraid you got me wrong there, I actually agree with you that spotting in certain situations is much harder in DCS than I'd expect it to be from my limited and mostly ground-based experience.

The very fact that the spotting results are wildly depending on screen resolution (and other factors) hints at that.

P.S.: with the ships I didn't mean that I just can't make them out properly anymore, because their profile becomes too narrow; I meant they literally disappear entirely with just the wake remaining.

It's one of the easiest thing to modify on a plane I think. I don't say it took 10 minutes to change it. But stop thinking it wasn't common.

 

Probably it wasn't for new pilot. As they never shoot on a plane, how could they have a favorite convergence point. But old pilote (officier / aces / ...) had some preference and modify them.

But apparently, even if their was standard convergence, their was more than one choice :

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Gun_harmonisation

 

So ... Even if we can't modify it as we wish ... We should have the choice between some harmonisation patern. But I still think that it would be better to choice which horizontal / vertical convergence we prefer on each plane (from X meter to X meters)

I think most old-timers had a bit of a preference towards what their attack range was and consequently wanted the guns to be harmonised for maximum effectiveness at that range. Of course it is possible to change that, but I'd assume it was generally something a squadron (or similar formation) agreed upon and used it across all their planes. You've linked the picture of the Luftwaffe folks doing it in North Africa earlier. That clearly shows it is obviously possible to change the convergence, but it also shows that you need the proper ranging tool and a proper procedure on how to use it (like setting it up at the correct distance).

I'm afraid you got me wrong there, I actually agree with you that spotting in certain situations is much harder in DCS than I'd expect it to be from my limited and mostly ground-based experience.

The very fact that the spotting results are wildly depending on screen resolution (and other factors) hints at that.

 

P.S.: with the ships I didn't mean that I just can't make them out properly anymore, because their profile becomes too narrow; I meant they literally disappear entirely with just the wake remaining.

Ok I didn't understand all you said too. But I agree with you that screen and hardware is an important point in the visual. But after talking with a lot of people who do only ww2 like me. Their is really something missing with this.

About ships I don't know. I don't do lot of flight to cover or attack ships because I don't do a lot of attack with Bf 109 and Fw 190 D9. I will see that with Fw 190 A8 ^^

I think most old-timers had a bit of a preference towards what their attack range was and consequently wanted the guns to be harmonised for maximum effectiveness at that range. Of course it is possible to change that, but I'd assume it was generally something a squadron (or similar formation) agreed upon and used it across all their planes. You've linked the picture of the Luftwaffe folks doing it in North Africa earlier. That clearly shows it is obviously possible to change the convergence, but it also shows that you need the proper ranging tool and a proper procedure on how to use it (like setting it up at the correct distance).

I agree. I have already read that some squadron had some preference and all the plane did get similar patern. I read that for Luftwaffe plane for some squadron in 1944 - 1945 because planes were used by not only one pilot (except of aces planes). But as I remember, some Bf 110 had 2 crew (one for day flight and one for night flight). So plane were set with a convergence that was common to both crew (standard or choice of both pilots).

I had a similar story with gun convergence when some squadron leader tell to set plane to xxx meters for new pilots as they tough it was better than the classic one. Some squadron which were specialised to attack B17 (for example) had particular set up to be more efficient against bomber (shoot when the B17 is that tall in the sight).

Edit : And to be historically correct with the fact that some squadron had particular convergence. Why not add the possibility in mission editor to lock it to some patern if some prefer to not allow some pilots to have their own choice. But It's something DCS really miss.

"yeah yeah I can zoom and make all the flight like that ...

It’s best to have the zoom view on an axis or slider so you can constantly vary it. Watch how this player is using it. This is typical for all flight sims, not just DCS WWII

I'm bored to answer to your "Zoom" ...

Look at the 2 moment in this video :3.37, 6.59

See a plane/dot before he zoom ?

He see it in game and we don't see it because it's only a video. But for a lot of people, this video is exactly what we see in game. NOTHING ! That's not normal to have nothing to see when so close !

It needs to be improve. The answers "Always fly with full zoom" or "use labels" aren't acceptable.

And please ... I'm not talking about the visibility when 200 meters behind the ennemy. The visual at those distance is correct ! I don't say perfect but correct !

I'm bored to answer to your "Zoom" ...

 

Look at the 2 moment in this video :3.37, 6.59

See a plane/dot before he zoom ?

 

He see it in game and we don't see it because it's only a video. But for a lot of people, this video is exactly what we see in game. NOTHING ! That's not normal to have nothing to see when so close !

 

It needs to be improve. The answers "Always fly with full zoom" or "use labels" aren't acceptable.

 

And please ... I'm not talking about the visibility when 200 meters behind the ennemy. The visual at those distance is correct ! I don't say perfect but correct !

YouTube videos are never as clear as the live game. That contact at 3:37 would be easy to see, for me anyways. It’s close enough to almost fire. At 1.5 miles I can almost ID a WWII fighter if it’s in profile.

DCS is not really any different than other sims in this regard, in some cases it’s better. We will never have monitors that equal real world resolution and color depth so games will always fall short of that. Sure everything can always be improved and ED is working on this.

But for whatever reason DCS players seem to have more trouble with this and it’s not just the game, it’s the players themselves. Inadequate hardware, poor or odd graphics settings, gameplay habits etc. ED can’t fix that aspect.

Watch footage from any combat flight sim and you’ll see similar use of the zoom view. Why DCS players have trouble using or understanding this is hard to explain.

DCS is not really any different than other sims in this regard, in some cases it’s better. We will never have monitors that equal real world resolution and color depth so games will always fall short of that. Sure everything can always be improved and ED is working on this.

But for whatever reason DCS players seem to have more trouble with this and it’s not just the game, it’s the players themselves. Inadequate hardware, poor or odd graphics settings, gameplay habits etc. ED can’t fix that aspect.

For non-VR player, the visibility distance is low. I'm ok with the fact that it can't be good for all hardware. But it should be improved for classic monitor with PC which match the requirments to play.

Just need to look what is the most common monitor size/type and work with it to make something better.

Every sim have the same problem, that's true. But DCS is far far behind the other one with that.

At one time IL2 Cliffs of Dover had the same issue. We were forced to fly with labels to see other planes. But they worked on it and it's now better. It's not easy to see plane but there is something to see.

Yes, by the way the pair of binoculars was part of the standard equipment of the pilots on both sides, and was used mostly in combat !

Yes, by the way the pair of binoculars was part of the standard equipment of the pilots on both sides, and was used mostly in combat !

That’s not what the zoom view is meant to replicate. It’s there to make up for the lack of size and resolution on your monitor in order to simulate 20/20 vision. On a desktop sized screen zoomed in would be more life sized. You need to vary the zoom level in and out to give yourself both acuity and peripheral vision. That’s the only way a monitor can try to give you real world eyesight. This feature is not unique to DCS but universal in all flight sims.

That’s not what the zoom view is meant to replicate. It’s there to make up for the lack of size and resolution on your monitor in order to simulate 20/20 vision. On a desktop sized screen zoomed in would be more life sized. You need to vary the zoom level in and out to give yourself both acuity and peripheral vision. That’s the only way a monitor can try to give you real world eyesight. This feature is not unique to DCS but universal in all flight sims.

I agree. It's not realist but it's the best way that view can be simulated in flight sim on a 2D screen. In real life you can look at "wide view" or concentrate on a little think without really seing details around.

Zoom isn't something to change in DCS. I think it's really nice and smooth now. Really a big + to the game but it's not the topic I wanted to discuss about visibility distance.