We also have to have a chat about MSAA and deferred shading - ED Forums
 


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Old 02-03-2018, 12:25 PM   #1
muse458
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Default We also have to have a chat about MSAA and deferred shading

Hi all,

looks like it has been an exciting but mixed start for everyone on the 2.5 beta, but ED have always pushed forward with solutions and I'm sure they will solve a lot of the problems asap.

its always good to get a big sample size to iron out bugs..

But just in regards to AA .....

Every thread I'm reading thus far about 2.5 (and 2.2 for that matter) around performance discussions has at least 5 or six separate comments about how MSAA is destroying frame rates with deferred shading on, and everyones solution is just to have it a "0" or nvidia control panel work arounds (which unfortunately don't work for VR users) so its basically redundant having it (unless you have a 1080ti and then you can maybe push it to 2x or 4x)

This has been a problem since 2.2 came out and I guess all I am wanting to hear is that this is a priority for the team at ED and a solution is being worked on? I haven't seen anything mentioned by Wags for quite a while about this...its definitely a major problem...

but even if a solution is months off at least we will have a dream to look forward to.

Sithspawn, Bignewy it would be awesome if you could please have quick a chat to Wags and get the lowdown and confirm that something is happening with AA and report back??

Cheers and thanks to ED again for developing more awesome stuff for us...

just need me some quality AA
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:28 PM   #2
Nealius
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Yes. Neither option is good. No antialiasing looks absolutely awful, and deferred shading off screws up the trees (no autumn colors, for example).
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:06 PM   #3
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Hi, I do have another solution that works well with my rig : lowering the Shadows quality from High to Medium allows me to use both ingame MSAA x4 and Deferred shadows. My worst fps rate is then 35 when flying low over Batumi, and max is over 100. I use nVidia panel default settings.

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Old 02-03-2018, 02:21 PM   #4
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There really needs to be a solution to this, however isn't it a limitation of how GPUs work?

I can live without Deferred shading for now, AA is a must for me.

Nate
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:29 PM   #5
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The only thing that truly worked for me was disabling terrain shadows completely.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:01 PM   #6
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I'm getting used to no MSAA...
yeah its not great, but being able to have everything else on high does kind of make up for it.
I've been having a few "man this is beautiful" moments in VR..

its seems way better than no MSAA in NTTR and Normandy in 2.2.
less shimmer.
really only see the jaggies on electricity pylons. and some buildings. the new thin wires make them less of an issue.
the actual landscape itself is pretty good. ie horizon merge. etc

and being able to see tracers in VR is quite novel
i could not see them in 1.5.8
which sucks when you are in a huey.

so all in all I'm not as annoyed as i thought i was going to be.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:09 PM   #7
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I agree with the OP that it is strange that not more effort has been put into fixing this.

Deffered shading might be a nice thing, but not if You cannot use AA.
Setting AA through the Nvidia Control Panel does not work and even using Reshade SMAA with deffered shading makes the sim stutter.

If the terrain and especially the trees cannot look right without deffered shading, why then even make it optional ?

I know thi is a alpha / beta version and 2.5 is fresh from the oven, but these issues also existed in 2.2.

Right now the smoothest experience for me is with 2xMSAA and Deffered shading Off and the live with the ugky trees and weird greenish cockpit in the AJS37 Viggen when the radar is On.

The problem is that personally I don´t find the graphical finess with 2.5 is so much better than in 1.5.8 - so the performance impact we see is kind of out of the world compared from 1.5.8 Caucasus map.
Even trees are visible much longer away from You in 1.5.8 than in 2.5, even with Trees set to 100%.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:25 PM   #8
NeilWillis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjacobsen View Post
I agree with the OP that it is strange that not more effort has been put into fixing this.
How can you possibly know how much effort is being put into fixing this? Yes, it is an issue, and one that ED must be well aware of as they have advised not to mix the two things.

To quote... "Rome wasn't built in a day"

Rome is still a work in progress thousands of years after a wolf allegedly suckled twins Romulus and Remus. DCS World is very similar in that respect (but I am sure Wags was raised in a much less outrageous manner?).

We have had 2.5 in BETA form precisely 3.5 days! If it can be fixed, it will be fixed of that we can be sure. How much effort has been put into the bug isn't something anyone outside ED is privy to, so maybe you're being a little rash in you assertion?
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Old 02-03-2018, 04:24 PM   #9
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This problem isn't exclusive to the Beta. It's been a problem since Nevada and Normandy, which are way more than 3.5 days old.
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Old 02-03-2018, 04:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilWillis View Post
How can you possibly know how much effort is being put into fixing this? Yes, it is an issue, and one that ED must be well aware of as they have advised not to mix the two things.

To quote... "Rome wasn't built in a day"

Rome is still a work in progress thousands of years after a wolf allegedly suckled twins Romulus and Remus. DCS World is very similar in that respect (but I am sure Wags was raised in a much less outrageous manner?).

We have had 2.5 in BETA form precisely 3.5 days! If it can be fixed, it will be fixed of that we can be sure. How much effort has been put into the bug isn't something anyone outside ED is privy to, so maybe you're being a little rash in you assertion?
It has been an isue ever since Deffred shading has been added - so not just 3.5 days.
You are right- I don´t know how much effert the devs put into fixing this, but according to the many many reports about the problems with it, I wonder why it hasn´t been fixed or just improved.
It has been told by many with great knowledge about this, that Deffred shading and MSAA working together cannot work, so why not introduce other AA methods ?
They could have added SMAA or even FXAA, so You don´t have to use 3rd party mods like Reshade.

For me DCS 2.5 has too major problems inorder to fully replace 1.5.8 (at least for me) and that is the isseue with DS vs MSAA and the incredible hunger for memory.

Maybe 8GB system RAM and 4GB Video RAM isn´t exactly what is used in today Gaming computers, but honestly I have zero problems with any of my other games / sims, including P3D V4.1, IL-2 BOX and a handfull of First person shooters and Racing sims.

The only excuse is that Flight sims has become a niche' and a company like ED doesn´t have the ressources other game type developers have, but still I have hoped, and stil do, that these issues will see some improvements in not so long a timeframe.
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