Takeoff problem

I also have main gear blowouts above 150-160 on takeoff roll which in turn will break the ADC. That seems a tad slow in my opinion.

For me was the last Patch :thumbup:

Thanks

I also have main gear blowouts above 150-160 on takeoff roll which in turn will break the ADC. That seems a tad slow in my opinion.

Precisely. I just read through the F5E NATOPS and the Vmax of the tires should be 230 knots.

Precisely. I just read through the F5E NATOPS and the Vmax of the tires should be 230 knots.

Same issue 150 kts blown left main with ADC fail. Those speeds are knots ground speed for proper reference. Altitude and temp can significantly increase grounspeed when compared to what your seeing in indicated airspeed. I still think something is off, this is happening DCS wide.

I also have main gear blowouts above 150-160 on takeoff roll which in turn will break the ADC. That seems a tad slow in my opinion.

It is my belief its extremely slow. Previous posts indicate that Vmax on the tires are 230. I know that isn't documented in the manual if it is I have not seen it posted. However I did find on page 266 in the Belsimtek F-5E3 Flight Manual under the single-engine take off emergency procedures. The following.

"Single-Engine Takeoff

In case of single-engine takeoff:

Ø Use afterburner during takeoff;

Ø Jettison stores;

Ø Use pedals to maintain direction;

Ø To lift up the nose gear, aft the control stick at approximately 5 KIAS before single-engine takeoff speed (link Table. Takeoff performance), if runway permits, lift-off can be made at 210 KIAS (not more, due to landing gear tires limitations);

Ø Single operating engine ensures minimum climb rate of 300 ft/min with extended flaps and landing gear (at full afterburner; with full fuel tanks, without stores)."

Also:

I found this Table on page 261.

8. Maximum takeoff run groundspeed 230 KIAS Wheel tires strength

Of course all of this is dependent on other factors not coming into play like heat and stress. However I believe that tires bursting at 170 or even 190 is extremely slow by the evidence in the flight manual.

I too had been experiencing main tire bursting on takeoff if I attempt to lift off at 160 kt or so (near full load). Trim at about 8. Then I tried delaying lift-off to 200 kt and most times it seems to avoid tire bursting.

Is the above correct?

Could the main tire bursts when lifting nose up at 160 causes too much weight to be transferred to the mains, and coupled with all those slight bouncing on the ground, resulted in burst tire?

I thought the same but... In hard landings probably you pit even more weight.

i have never had a gear blow for 160kt rotation yet my wingman has blown his several times doing the exact same thing.

I feel like it always happens when you don't properly rotate (full aft stick at lift off)/proper trim according to gross weight for TO/extend nose (if necessary). All 3 of those factors if you miss one of them I feel like its some kind of weight or stress issue. Just my assumptions tho. When I do everything correctly, even with the heaviest load outs it doesn't happen. But missing just one of the 3 things seems to blow a tire and ADC.

Would like to know for sure tho the actual/real cause and if it is a glitch or simulated properly

Can not comment on what other people are experiencing, but this is what I have seen:

I think I get most of my tire failures when making abrupt use of rudder at high speeds. Out of trim and poor rotation do not help, also. Willing to accept that I may be inadvertently tapping the brakes too. Side loads on tires at heavy weight and high speed do sound like a good reason for tire failure to me. Willing to accept it as pilot error due to less than perfect technique.

Been doing quite a fair bit of flying in the F5 in World 2,0 NTTR from various different bases.

I can confirm that tire blow-outs seem quite random at times, where rotating at prescribed speeds or delaying to higher speed, though lifting at higher speed seems best option. All settings accordingly done.

Sometimes even while just rolling straight down runway and waiting for rotation, the tires could just pop.

Never encountered this in other DCS add-ons.

Surely the real F5's tires can't be that fragile, right?

Could the developer look into "strengthening" the tire value?

It can be rather frustrating to have a popped tire after having set up everything and about ready to rock in a mission.

Please look into fixing this. Thanks.

it use to not be so fragile I would say an update in mid Nov I started experiencing the frequent blow outs. I had one the other night at 165 with all three tires on the ground. I had a slight cross wind too which may also have something to do with it. Lateral stress on the tires maybe. However I can drift the thing on landings better than any rally car on the circuit. LOL.

I certainly do hope BST looks at this and fixes this issue. My take offs look horrible because I try to get the airplane off the ground as soon as possible rather than letting the plane fly off the run way as the manual says. Mostly because I am afraid of blowing out the tires.

Try lifting off only when speed near 200 knots. Seems to have less tire blow-out at higher speed lift-off (assuming proper trimming).

Still, I feel there definitely is a bug somewhere given such fragile tires. If the real F5's wheels were to be that jelly, air forces the world over might have wasted off several jets by now.

As long as you get the trim back a bit and the switch to raise the AoA with full afterburner things seem to consistantly go fine with a heavy load rotating around 150kts. I kept blowing the tyres mainly because I hadn't set an appropriate trim.

Had flown several short missions and really frustrated by the random blowing of tires during takeoff. Just had 5 consecutive tires blowing takeoffs in a row, when just earlier many missions were flown with no issue.

All same settings, from same Tonopah airbase. Even tried different trimming settings etc previously.

Very disappointing especially after all the lengthy setting up. Wasted much time.

Could the developer help comment on this? Wd there be a fix coming?

The real world tires have to be a lot stronger, and not behave like balloons ready to pop randomly.

Really hope this get fixed.

Also noticed the "bounciness" during takeoff roll seems rather over modelled with much bouncing. And because the dehiking logic kicks in when all three wheels are lifted off, there were a few occasions when the bouncing was so exaggerated that the nose gear started to dehike.

Is there an issue in this area?

I had said the same thing about trimming to +9 and got flamed for it lol......but it works so..........??

Had sent a ticket to support and the reply was that the tire blow-out problem could not be replicated, and that it likely happened because the speed was too fast or brake applied too hard.

But none of the suggested likely causes are correct, as the blowout quite often happens at speed as low as 160, 170 range, whether the plane was lightly loaded with just two Aim-9, or heavily loaded with bombs and tanks. The tires according to specs could take up to 230 knots speed.

So far it happened in airports in NTTR map. Did not do much flying in World 1.5 map.

Developer please fine-tune to increase the limit. The F-5E here is a good simulation, but the tires bursting problem is a serious minus for those who encounter it, and for those considering to buy it, and those who support Belsimtek products past, present or even future.

Please respond.

I have never had a tire blow on the F5E. Ever. I can see some people do though. The only time I've ever had a problem on takeoff was online when a lag spike hit while I was accelerating- but then I simply took off with no warning lights and I couldn't use external views to check tires

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I have never had a tire blow on the F5E. Ever. I can see some people do though. The only time I've ever had a problem on takeoff was online when a lag spike hit while I was accelerating- but then I simply took off with no warning lights and I couldn't use external views to check tires

 

 

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What map do you normally fly on ricktoberfest?

What map do you normally fly on ricktoberfest?

Both, but to be fair in Nevada it's normally from the main Nellis base for the campaigns

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I fly the F-5 regularly, offline and on servers, and on both maps. Here's what I have figured out about take offs. It's pretty much a warbird with jet engines compared to the Gen 4 stuff around here, so I treat it like a Thunderbolt, as in I load it up real heavy like and bomb and rocket and strafe the bejesus out of stuff. I put that in there so no one thinks I am flying a lightened up cream puff configured F-5

1) If it stays on the ground too long on take off roll you'll blow a tire and break your air data computer

2) Trim to +9 on your trim gauge, line up and start your roll. At 150 start pulling.

3) Watch as your jet leaves the ground with all tires intact. Shout with glee, bomb some shit, RTB.

As long as your jet comes off the ground around or a little past 175 you won't break it. Is it bugged? Sure, but can you work around it? Oh yeah. I know the real pilots here keep telling me that trim isn't the answer, but for once instead of flaming me go try it for yourself, then come flame me :-)

Just for critical distance I flew the F-5 yesterday with full fuel, 5 snakes centerline, and 4 GBU 12's on the four wing hard points. first time I have flown the little jet in a month or two......and we all know how you get rusty when you stop flying. That's pretty heavy, and I was able to make two take offs and two landings without breaking anything using the above formula.

~S

there's a maximum take-off speed, what was yours? It's more a feature, but who knows how resistant the tires are and how realistic they are simulated in DCS...

There's a marker on the gauge at 170 or 175. I treat that like the max ground speed.

I too have suffered this problem sporadically; I think there might be something to the theory that it is related to lateral loads more than speed, although as Erk104 cleverly pointed out, side loads seem to pose no problems at all when landing.

I did want to add a couple things to the conversation however- remember that the 230 knots tire limitation posed by TO 1F-5E-1 is groundspeed rather than an indicated speed (tailwinds, PA/DA, and temperature changes will yield large differences between IAS and GS). Fortunately the USAF was kind enough to provide the attached chart in TO 1F-5E-1 and it shows that for the airport and temperature combinations anyone faces in DCS we really should never have a problem below 200 knots, and in most cases much higher speeds.

Also, just one other thought about some comments here relating trim position and weight- trim position is set as a function of %MAC rather than takeoff weight- the location of the stores is critical to the aircraft's CG and must be accounted for.

Finally, Robert 31178, I don't really think people are flaming you for your comments, I just think that a large part of the DCS audience wants aircraft that behave as the flight manual says they should. While there is nothing wrong with a work-around that keeps a module playable while it is being adjusted, I believe the DCS community as a whole puts a premium on realism, and a perceived lack of realism is what is being attacked, not your methodology for working within how the game currently functions.