Possible accelerated stall bug?

We came across this bug and do not really know what to think of it. Here is a little video to explain it.

Anyone have anything to add? It might help to test it out with some friends.

UPDATE: We realize the parameters that the manual says. However, this problem happens at every airspeed within (550 - 700) and every G > 1.5 while in formation...

The video is unavailable

Looks like its working for other people..

For me it says that the video is unavailable..

We are getting exactly the same issue in the P-51!

Watch from 2:15

Very strange. Glad to see we are not going crazy, and other people are experiencing it. It seems like its only really happening around the slot position or under the wing of lead. Seems like a bug...

Also happens to us with the guys on left / right wing (We have no slot pilot normally).

Just going to add.. As me and a friend were flying the L-39 the first day it was out we did some formation in straight and level flight. My friend went slot, and every time he would get close my plane started shaking violently around, but to me it didn't really feel like a stall..

Hopefully this will go a little further to explaining the issue we currently have with formation flying in DCS 1.5. We have experienced this issue with both the P-51D / TF-51D and the L-39.

He, we are entering a loop, using the same process that we have use in DCS since the Mustang's release in 2012.

350mph entry,

3.5 G pull,

At roughly 35° pitch, the lead aircraft rolls sharply to the right. There is no weather, other than clouds, in this mission.

Also experienced this in other AC, namely A-10C, Su-27 and F-15. An additional thing I noticed while flying under a bridge was a slight "bump" I felt as I went through it. Never experienced any of these things before but I really hope that's intentional, kinda gives some additional realism.

Lead aircraft AT ITS PILOT'S COMPUTER or as you see it from the chasing plane?

Don't you know that you see not "actual aircraft" but its A PHANTOM flying using the data actual plane sends to you?

So, we would like to know whether your local plane encounters something strange as THE PHANTOM is close to you or it's only phantom's movment.

 

I.e. we need the same situation video recorded from the leader's computer. Or just detailed describing of the situation from both points of view.

 

 

Or the leader encounered this stall and you see how the phantom adeqately repeated it at wingmans computer?

Both of the views in my video are recorded from players PC's.

My view (The leader) is at the bottom. All of a sudden, my aircraft rolls to the right, after around 35° of pull.

The view at the top of the screen is the exact same loop, but viewed from my wing man's perspective.

This flight was flown online by myself and Kestrel. We recorded what we saw from our cockpits and I have merged the videos together here. This is the same loop, viewed from 2 different human pilots - there are no AI aircraft here.

Hopefully this will go a little further to explaining the issue we currently have with formation flying in DCS 1.5. We have experienced this issue with both the P-51D / TF-51D and the L-39.

 

He, we are entering a loop, using the same process that we have use in DCS since the Mustang's release in 2012.

 

350mph entry,

3.5 G pull,

 

At roughly 35° pitch, the lead aircraft rolls sharply to the right. There is no weather, other than clouds, in this mission.

 

and the turn/stall/bug is not being repeated onto the following aircraft. It simply happens with lead.

That may be true for the L-39 but, for the P-51, my wingmen are experiencing the same issue. Although, it effects each aircraft individually, not at the same time.

I haven't got much lunch time left to have a good look at the video, but is it that the lead rolls as you pich up at the point where his tail becomes horizontally aligned with your prop ?

Is a wake being propogated horizontally in MP rather than in the plane of the aircraft's motion ?

I haven't got much lunch time left to have a good look at the video, but is it that the lead rolls as you pich up at the point where his tail becomes horizontally aligned with your prop ?

Is a wake being propogated horizontally in MP rather than in the plane of the aircraft's motion ?

Yes (ish). The issue is the roll to the right. It's completely unpredictable and, when it happens, we have no effective control to try and fight it. This is happening not only when we have one aircraft underneath the other, but also with my wingmen out on left and right wing. It only seems to happen to us as we pitch up through roughly 35 deg of pull.

For the record: we have tried the same with a P-51 leading and an F'86 flying underneath. The same effect happened, so we do not think it is to do with the position of player 2's prop specifically - more likely to be with how tight aircraft are flying.

Tested in latest hotfix and we still have the same issue

Seems legit to me, as you increase your climb, your speed drops and your pulling back on the stick. Your AoA rises, the slower the more AoA and if you pull back just a bit to hard (just a nudge) it will induce loss of lift for that brief moment. Happens in all planes. Looks like you were doing about 265 knots @ 3.5g in an old air-frame. At the moment of the stall the airspeed needle dropped from to 305ish to 301 very rapidly. I say its a stall, try replicating it at 3g or even 2.5. Im not saying its not a bug and it very well could be but, 9/10 its pilot error or a misinterpretation.

;2530647']Seems legit to me' date=' as you increase your climb, your speed drops and your pulling back on the stick. Your AoA rises, the slower the more AoA and if you pull back just a bit to hard (just a nudge) it will induce loss of lift for that brief moment. Happens in all planes. Looks like you were doing about 265 knots @ 3.5g in an old air-frame. At the moment of the stall the airspeed needle dropped from to 305ish to 301 very rapidly. I say its a stall, try replicating it at 3g or even 2.5. Im not saying its not a bug and it very well could be but, 9/10 its pilot error or a misinterpretation.[/quote']

 

 

Absolutely 100% not - it may well be a stall in DCS, but it shouldn't be. If it were a stall, this issue would also be present when flying alone, but it only happens in formation with another aircraft.

 

350mph entrace, 3.5G initial pull. This is the process that the real horsemen aerobatic team use and we replicate exactly. The pull here is no where near enough to stall the aircraft

Absolutely 100% not - it may well be a stall in DCS, but it shouldn't be. If it were a stall, this issue would also be present when flying alone, but it only happens in formation with another aircraft.

 

350mph entrace, 3.5G initial pull. This is the process that the real horsemen aerobatic team use and we replicate exactly. The pull here is no where near enough to stall the aircraft

You would know better than me I don't fly the Mustang, but I have not noticed this while flying in formation in a F-15. I at first I thought it was a torque reaction but that wouldn't make sense as it has been reported to happen with the L-39 and F-86.

This happened tonight during a practice sortie. We took a rider up and practice some loops in the Hotfix, and it still happens. In this video you can see how the slot pilot gets "Vacuumed" or shot up into leads airplane before going vertical.

Sorry for the quality. The rider recorded it on his phone :(

So far this seems to only happen to planes from ED.

Have had no issues in the MiG-21.

I hope for a fix, if not this might be the end of any kind of formation flying.

We figured out we can do loops as long as each pilot flying formation remove the (L-39_C.lods) file out, downside is we can't land.

downside is we can't land.

As a work-around, you could try to leave the L-39_C.lods like this:

model={
collision_shell="L-39_C-collision.edm";
}

Landing should work that way.

As a work-around, you could try to leave the L-39_C.lods like this:

model={
collision_shell="L-39_C-collision.edm";
}

 

Landing should work that way.

Thanks for your information, I just tried it and it made my L-39C invisible from the F2 point of view, as well I went through the ground but all I could see was the F1 Cockpit view. I used Notepad++ to edit the file. (Not sure how to convert it back to the original file it already was)

F2 View works:

model={
lods={
	{"L-39_C.edm",50000.000000};

};
collision_shell="L-39_C-collision.edm";
}

If that issue is caused by the LOD system, that should fix the issues.

Original file:

model={
lods={
	{"L-39_C.edm",30.000000};
	{"L-39_C_LOD1.edm",95.000000};
	{"L-39_C_LOD2.edm",500.000000};
	{"L-39_C_LOD3.edm",700.000000};
	{"L-39_C_LOD4.edm",50000.0};

};
collision_shell="L-39_C-collision.edm";
}