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Old 02-25-2014, 06:51 AM   #1
luthier1
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Default Need lots of information on Fw 190D-9

Hello,

I'm writing a manual for DCS Fw 190D-9. It's generally finished; however there are some holes in the historical reference we have. Some of the more obscure systems are not very well described at all, or at least, not in the way that we need to properly model them in a flight sim.

Here's my list.

1. Is there any info on the technical specs of the boosted controls?
By looking at the blueprints we can easily see the simple mechanism, but we need numbers. Is there anything like a graph or a text that says that for x degrees of control deflection you get y degrees of surface movement?

2. Same question for the engine's Bediengerät. Are there any numbers on it, precise data, as in, for an input of x, the device outputs y?

3. We cannot find good info on MW-50 Controls. Where is the On-Off switch? What does it look like (assuming Fl 32350). What about the MW-B4-Selector?

4. How does the Notzug system interact with the MW-50 system?

5. Is there the Auto-Hand Luftschraube switch with the corresponding rocker switch on the throttle, as on the earlier variants?

6. We could use more info on the pull-out Kuhlerklappen handle. When was it used? What effect did the flaps have? Was it in any way connected with the Bediengerät?

7. Is there a good quality hydraulic system diagram anywhere?

8. We need better info on the circuit breaker on the right console. What were all the buttons? What were the standard captions for each?

9. We need better oxygen system info: tank capacity, which order the tanks were used in, approx. oxygen supply at different altitudes.

10. Some references have the left console with only one FuG 16 ZY frequency dial, while others have a second one next to it.
The first one we’re clear on, but the second one – the FuG 16 ZY Handbuch does not seem to mention it, but it's right there in the aircraft Ersatzteilliste. We have no idea what the switch does.

11. The Frequency dial – what do the frequencies actually do?
The I position is for Y-Führungsfrequenz, or Management frequency.
The II position is for Gruppenbefehlsfrequenz, or Group Order frequency.
The ∆ position is for Nah-Flugsicherungsfrequenz, or the Air Traffic Control frequency.
The □ position is for Reichsjägerfrequenz, or Reich Fighter Defense Frequency.
That we're clear on. What they were used for however, we need more info on that.

12. The frequency dial and the AD 18 switch – what in the world does it affect? What's E-Messbetrieb? What's Zielflug-Anzeige? How did they actually work? What were the cockpit procedures?

And why does the FuG-16 Handbuch only list interactions with AD 18 for Frequenzschalter in positions I and II, and nothing about ∆and □?

13. What did the earphone plug look like?

14. What did the Flugzeugvernichter button look like? A cockpit diagram from the Lehrmittel appears to show it as an actual cockpit control on the right console.

15. What did the Dora's “Hinweisschild u.Bauteilschild” look like?

16. What did the Dora's Baumusterkarte look like?
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:06 AM   #2
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I just stumbled upon these web sites, perhaps they can be of some use to you:
http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/index.htm
http://www.cdvandt.org/index.htm

For example regarding the Fl 32350:
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:24 AM   #3
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Hi Ilya!

For details on the FuG 16ZY please refer to a more detailed explanation on pages 41 and 42 in this document: http://www.cdvandt.org/D-Luft-T-4069-FuG-16ZY.pdf

E-Messbetrieb means the Y-device in an aircraft is active (kinda like a mobile radio beacon which allowed ground installations to detect and follow a fighter unit's progress for GCI ops). This device was installed in only a few aircraft per unit (Gefechtsverband) but only one was supposed to be active at one time (the rest were reserve). Any aircraft not supposed to operate in this role had the Y-device physically deactivated before flight.

As far as I understand the manual the I frequency setting (Y-Führungsfrequenz) is for the radio emitter only (the pilot will still hear the unit's command frequency, he just won't be able to talk to them - see page 41 points 352 & 353 of the linked document). If the pilot now switches the AD 18Y selector to Y/ZF mode the Y-device will be active and will give the fighter control officer onthe ground the possibility to track the unit's progress and direct them to the enemy formations.

The II frequency setting is the formation's command frequency (as it was correctly said). was correctly translated but I can't say what it was used for. The Reichsjägerfreuqenz on was pretty much an information frequency which was used to transmit general information on the tactical situation in the air over Germany to the fighter units. It was mostly a backstop in case the contact between fighters and ground control broke down or was jammed.

Now back to the AD 18Y. In any other setting but I that switch was used to select either radio mode (FT = Funktelegrafie) or to "lock on" to a radio beacon and use it for navigation (ZF = Zielflug-Anzeige), in day fighters usually in combination with the "Anzeigegerät für Funknavigation" (don't know technical abbreviation).

I hope that helps.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:51 PM   #4
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http://www.trade-a-plane.com/listing?id=1739667

did you try to contact them?

maybe they can provide pictures of the for points 13-16, if those parts are still in the aircraft.

would a ww2 veteran be of help who actualy flew a dora?

dont know if i can get one, but we had one 190 pilot in my glider school 20 years back, maybe still alive.

regards,
RR
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:45 PM   #5
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This site may be worth exploring:

http://www.superborg.de/

Also the FHC in Everett WA has a fully operational D-13, they might have something you need as they maintain it in flight worthy condition.

http://www.flyingheritage.com/Templa...x?contentId=17
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:44 PM   #6
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There's no hydraulic system on the FW190-D9, therefore no boosted controls. Gear is actuated electrically and indicated both electrically and mechanically.

Regarding controls (translation by me):

FW190 D-9 Airplane Handbook
Part 0
General Information
(Status October 1944)

Issue November 1944

Page 6:
Chapter 3. Fuselage


d. Steering Mechanism

Elevator and ailerons are operated with the flight control stick, the rudder with pedals. Control movements are actuated with rods, corresponding-pulls and steering wires. A differential in the elevator control changes the transmission ratio, keeping elevator control forces small. For rudder control, instead of a differential, a lever shaft is fitted (without change of transmission ratio). Stabiliser trim and flaps are operated electrically. A parallel flap operation is not warranted, but when selected position is reached the installed off-delay timers turn power off.

MAC

P.S.: have a bit of respect for yourself, and the people who have and are supporting your project - it may be easier to get help in the future
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:16 PM   #7
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1. Is there any info on the technical specs of the boosted controls?
By looking at the blueprints we can easily see the simple mechanism, but we need numbers. Is there anything like a graph or a text that says that for x degrees of control deflection you get y degrees of surface movement?


What boosted controls? I’m not sure I understand your question. See pic 1 below – is that what you’re asking? The diagram is for A-5/6, but I don’t think the angles were changed on later versions, including D-9.

3. We cannot find good info on MW-50 Controls. Where is the On-Off switch? What does it look like (assuming Fl 32350). What about the MW-B4-Selector?

See pic 2 below. I believe the dark circle next to it is the “MW switched on” indicator light. About the switch type, I looked at deutscheluftwaffe.de for Fl 32350 pictures – probably that’s the type.
The MW-B4-Selector – in Jerry Crandall’s Fw 190 D book, vol 1 there are several cockpit pictures of W. Nr. 601088, displayed today in National Museum of the USAF, here are 4 pics of the cockpit as it looks today http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=507

This particular plane was fitted with MW 50. What’s interesting about the pics in Crandall’s book, they were taken BEFORE restoration, so IMO they can be trusted to show how the real thing looked back then. In the pictures are visible the left side cockpit panel and part of the instrument panel. The differences between how the cockpit looks today and back then are:
- the color today is obviously too dark
- the landing gear position indicator and the I – II - ∆ - □ frequency selector are one in other’s place. The incorrect placement probably happened when the plane was put together in lack of technical documentation. The placement as seen in the unrestored pictures is also identical with Fw 190 A-8 and F-8 cockpit pictures, and conforms with drawings from technical manuals for Fw 190 A variants with FuG 16
- the trim indicator today is placed upside-down. The scale of the indicator shouldn’t be towards the pilot, but towards the wing. Pilot sitting should see the letter T on the indicator upside-down. Confirmed also by cockpit pictures of other Fw 190 variants.
- the device identification letter/number codes handwritten next to various items in the cockpit are no more
- the label describing landing gear lowering procedure ”Ausfahren des Fahrwerks……..” today is missing

In the pictures of the unrestored cockpit there is no MW-B4-Selector visible in the location described in Lehrmittel. Also, there is no MW tank content emergency jettisoning (Schnellablaß) in the location described in Lehrmittel.

My theory: they gave up installing Schnellablaß, and the MW-B4-Selector (or another form of selection control with the same function) was fitted somewhere in the airframe, not accessible in flight. The configuration of the auxiliary 115 liter tank was anyway decided before flight if it was to be filled with B4 fuel or MW liquid, the switch actually had no use to the pilot in flight. Or maybe to simplify the system, the MW-B4-Selector was removed completely, and before flight the plane’s mechanic, depending on what was desired, manually attached to the auxiliary 115 ltr. tank the pipe for the MW installation or, if it was to be filled with B4 fuel, the pipe connecting it to the rear fuselage tank.

5. Is there the Auto-Hand Luftschraube switch with the corresponding rocker switch on the throttle, as on the earlier variants?

Of course not. The Auto-Hand switch on the left panel and the rocker switch on the throttle are missing on D-9. There is no manual electro-hydraulic pitch control like in Fw 190 A; on the D-9 the propeller's RPM governor can only be controlled automatically by the MBG; notice that, because there’s no manual control also there is no propeller pitch indicator.

7. Is there a good quality hydraulic system diagram anywhere?

What hydraulic system? This plane doesn’t have any hydraulics.

In the next days I will try to answer more of your questions.
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:47 PM   #8
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You are quite correct csThor. In the meantime we had some extensive research on the FuG 16 ZY.

"Anzeigegrät für Funknavigation" is the AFN-2 instrument. The needle showed the pilot if he is on course or off course.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luthier1 View Post
We need better oxygen system info: tank capacity, which order the tanks were used in, approx. oxygen supply at different altitudes.
The oxygen tanks have no order. They were filled and emptied equally. Max filled pressure is 165 atü.
One oxygen ball bottle (Fl30380-8 ) has a capacity of 2 litres.

MW50-B4 selector is position 51 at panel IV (left panel near left wall, below the IV)
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Fuel lines and electric lines for MW-50 use.
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The MW-50-B4 selector is secured through a screw, to prevent accidents.

Last edited by Kodoss; 02-27-2014 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:55 PM   #10
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4. How does the Notzug system interact with the MW-50 system?

I suppose by “Notzug system” you mean the “Notzug für MBG” (Notzug für Bediengetriebe) handle in the cockpit. I’m not sure that’s actually a “system”, it’s just a handle connected through a cable with the MBG. I don’t think it has anything to do with MW 50, it’s just an emergency control to switch the MBG to some sort of default state, to be used in case of emergency when MBG malfunctions. It was probably intended only as a means for the plane to return to base, most likely full engine performance was no longer available.

One thing is certain – D-9 planes without MW 50 also have this control. In the Lehrmittel manual for D-9 at engine start section they say the handle should be pulled when starting at temps below 0 deg C, then pushed back. In Ta-152H pilot manual (Jumo 213E engine) they say the engine will start better with handle pulled anyway.

6. We could use more info on the pull-out Kuhlerklappen handle. When was it used? What effect did the flaps have? Was it in any way connected with the Bediengerät?

See pic below. The only cockpit control for radiator cooling flaps was a small wheel mounted below the main instrument dashboard. I don’t remember in which book I read that there was a marking on the wheel and another marking on the mounting plate. Aligning the two markings, would mean that 100 deg C was set, the cooling flaps control mechanism would adjust the flaps as needed, trying to maintain coolant temperature at 100. The pilot could turn the wheel left or right, in this way overriding the position of the flaps that was maintained automatically. Could manually completely open or close the flaps, if needed.

AFAIK, the cooling flaps actuator wasn’t connected in any way with the MBG. The wheel in the cockpit was connected through a cable with the actuator/regulator device. The actuator was mounted above the engine and was controlled thermostatically, it didn’t involved any electric circuitry or mechanical/hydraulic input from MBG. All the actuator/regulator needed to work was temperature feedback, obtained through 2 pipes with hot coolant.

Operation was simple – after engine start, the Lehrmittel manual says the flaps should be manually fully opened when coolant temp reached 70 deg C. Next, after takeoff the pilot most likely put it on the “100” position and leave it like that for the entire flight. Exception would probably be a long, maximum performance steep climp, where one would want to manually fully open the flaps with anticipation. After landing and engine shut down, manually fully close the flaps.

9. We need better oxygen system info: tank capacity, which order the tanks were used in, approx. oxygen supply at different altitudes.

As Kodoss already said, the oxygen bottles were not used in any particular order, the bottles were connected through pipes with each other, see drawing in Lehrmittel manual. The normal filling pressure was 150 atm.
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