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Old 04-13-2019, 12:08 AM   #1
Cunning_Fox
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Default S3 Refuel

How do you refuel from a Viking?


As soon as the cone is deployed, by some magic your plane starts violently moving up and down and even a miniscule change in throttle percentage either sends it forward into the refueling aircraft or makes it drop. This is by far the worst throttle in the game, and I have all the modules. The reaction time on this thing is atrocious and the travel that is needed for the adjustments is horrible - moving from 250 knots to over 300 is a 3mm difference on X-55, not to mention the confusing speedometer.


This is ridiculous. No matter how much you trim the plane beforehand, the trim goes out the window when he deploys the cone.


I spend maybe a quarter of the tank trying to connect. Not only is it not viable option to refuel, I would rather land on the carrier twenty times than do this.


There is no point of reference. You can't see him becasue the cone drops below the aircraft and he is blocked by the canopy support. So you just have to "imagine" where the aircraft is. I don't use TrackIR (I have it, but it's just awful). So, what's the way to go about this?

Last edited by Cunning_Fox; 04-13-2019 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 04-13-2019, 12:48 AM   #2
Ornithopter
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I'm relatively new to aerial refueling, but no way is this "the worst throttle in the game". No way. It just takes practice, like everything else.

I can't advise you on your view problems, because I've never fueled from an S3 in the Tomcat. I think Track IR would help, not hinder, but I guess that is your call.

Here is some advice that was passed on to me. Sweep your wings into Bomb Mode. The real recommendation is for 40 degrees manual sweep, but control of the aircraft is even easier when the wings are swept past 50. Back that far, the automatic operation of the slats and manuever flaps is inhibited, and your trim will be more constant. And since your wings are well aft of where the wings would be if in Auto mode, there isn't going to be any automated movement of them, either.
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Last edited by Ornithopter; 04-13-2019 at 01:35 AM. Reason: meant to say slats not spoilers; corrected
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Old 04-13-2019, 01:05 AM   #3
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As above - 40 degrees minimum wing sweep is compulsory for refueling the Tomcat - so much easier! A couple of times I have been struggling to plug in and was like wtf - then checked the wings and for some reason they had swept fully fwd, re-swept them back and straight in.

Just sit off the tankers wing, sweep yours to 40+ and trim up the aircraft at the tankers speed, then move in.

The tanker speed makes a big difference too - a lot twitchier to refuel if you are too fast - try around 250-300 knots.

Personally I have found the F-14 the easiest a/c to tank with in DCS - generally just pop it in first or second go. Staying plugged when the tanker chucks it into a turn is another story lol. Saying that, I don't really like the Viking compared to the KCV-130/135 as much, and it carries bugger all fuel as well.

Even the old rule of 'don't watch the basket' doesn't really apply as the F-14 is so docile if you are gentle, you can generally just move fwd and guide the probe straight into the basket.
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VampireNZ View Post
As above - 40 degrees minimum wing sweep is compulsory for refueling the Tomcat - so much easier! A couple of times I have been struggling to plug in and was like wtf - then checked the wings and for some reason they had swept fully fwd, re-swept them back and straight in.

Just sit off the tankers wing, sweep yours to 40+ and trim up the aircraft at the tankers speed, then move in.

The tanker speed makes a big difference too - a lot twitchier to refuel if you are too fast - try around 250-300 knots.

Personally I have found the F-14 the easiest a/c to tank with in DCS - generally just pop it in first or second go. Staying plugged when the tanker chucks it into a turn is another story lol. Saying that, I don't really like the Viking compared to the KCV-130/135 as much, and it carries bugger all fuel as well.

Even the old rule of 'don't watch the basket' doesn't really apply as the F-14 is so docile if you are gentle, you can generally just move fwd and guide the probe straight into the basket.

Just FYI but IIRC, the max speed for the S3 when refueling is less than 250 knots. I will ask again but one of the guys I fly with and have known for 20 years was an S3 guy. It came from him. I get it, second hand info but...
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Old 04-13-2019, 09:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSS_Sniper View Post
Just FYI but IIRC, the max speed for the S3 when refueling is less than 250 knots. I will ask again but one of the guys I fly with and have known for 20 years was an S3 guy. It came from him. I get it, second hand info but...


I knew there was a reason I’ve set it to about 250 knots.


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Old 04-13-2019, 01:36 AM   #6
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I do it in bomb our auto mode, having watched the refueling tutorial video.


Seriously bad throttle control.


And you have to be at crash distance for him to deploy the cone. If you aren't - he will ask you to repeat attempt.


This is infuriating. You trim it just right, but because Tomcat is so vast and fat (like a cross between an overweight cat, a stingray, and a giant kite), any miniscule increase in throttle means you start climbing like crazy. So you have to adjust the trimmer like crazy, if you're trimmed to the tanker flight path - forget about it. I've already crashed three or four times into him. I'm doing stall speeds at the index, having set the Texaco dude to 260 knots in editor. Still, I either zoom past him or I lose him and never gain unless I jam the throttle forward until it reaches 400 (which takes years to bleed, since it takes years to deploy the airbrake).


And because the Viking is so small, I can't see him at all. Only the cone, which swings wildly as my aicraft loses all stability due to incredibly exaggerated jetwash.


It doesn't help that this is my first attempt at air refueling ever. But I swear to God, I could keep a damaged F-5E in a thunderstorm in a formation better than I can reach that cone in perfect weather on a Tomcat.

Last edited by Cunning_Fox; 04-13-2019 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 04-13-2019, 01:39 AM   #7
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I wasn't able to catch the drogue with any plane until I watched a video where the guy says it's like 90% mental, and that the key is relaxing your muscles for precision control. It's the death-grip that ruins the process. Didn't make a note of who made the video, but whoever it was, thanks-Keep making them, because you're definitely helping.
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Old 04-13-2019, 01:51 AM   #8
Cunning_Fox
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I think you're right. I've landed the Tomcat on the carrier at first attempt, but this is just driving me nuts.


"Use the Force" indeed.






"Looks like I've picked the wrong week to quit smoking"

-(c) Airplane

Last edited by Cunning_Fox; 04-13-2019 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:29 AM   #9
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Edit: Tried to help the guy and got abused for my trouble. Sigh..
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Old 04-13-2019, 03:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VampireNZ View Post
Ok dude - here is what you need to do..


- Get Jester to set the TACAN to the tanker, set your displays to TACAN (or just use the BDHI to the right).
- Point in the general direction and close on tanker, check in on radio advise intend to refuel, get tankers altitude and match it.
- Lock up the Tanker with PAL and set A-A HUD mode. Switch to camera mode on VDI and as you get closer you will see the tankers aspect angle from you.
-- Now you will have closure rate on the Left, and distance on the Right of the HUD. Use these to judge your closure and join with the Tanker.
- Try to avoid flying directly behind it, as the turbulence will screw you up.
- As you are closing, set wing sweep to 40-50 degrees - trim as necessary (nose up), deploy probe. Slow to match speed based on the info on the HUD.
- Match speed, altitude and trim, trim, trim. Settle off it's left wing. Get Jester to unlock Target (clearer HUD).
- When you are happy (hands-off S/L pretty much), move right directly behind the drogue and say you are ready to refuel - and they will either clear contact or say return pre-contact (in which case move a little closer and try again).
- Now just ease her in closer using the refuel pod as reference - from here it is just smooth controls. Adjust your axis curves if you need to.
- Plug in and drive forward a little more to start refuel - stay there


I made you a quick refuel mission to practice with, good luck. Is great fun when you nail it - I refuel before every mission now!

The mission would've been nice, except that I specifically said that I am trying to refuel from the S3, so it doesn't really follow the topic. Thanks for the effort, though.
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