Questions regarding F-14 features. - ED Forums


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Old 08-12-2019, 01:53 PM   #1
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Default Questions regarding F-14 features.

Hello, there are multiple things about the tomcat that seem unfinished and severely influence MP balancing apart from the AIM-54.

1: Jamming. You were kind enough to add a Jammer to the F-14 itself, which automatically breaks lock every few seconds, not allowing any HOJ shots. However, the F-14 is completely immune to Jamming. Is there a way to at least add the FC3 jamming to it for now? And if not, why? It would provide a method to break lock at long ranges without having to maneuver or loose altitude, a game changer.

2: Jester and Datalink missile detection. Currently the F-14 with Jester will see every single missile launched at him as long as its not below the aircraft, as far as i have seen. Even when Jester is operating systems and the detection comes with a reliability that a human RIO could never have. Same with datalink, it seems (or seemed, maybe its fixed now, have not tested) to detect all incoming missiles, a feature that no other DL in the sim has. Are there plans to adjust this?

3: Damage Model. I have asked about this in another thread but not received any answers from HB itself. Is it still WIP? Its currently the tankiest aircraft in the game and as you can clearly see in SATAL and multiplayer servers quite able to fight for a long time after being hit by a large BVR missile. No other aircraft of this size in the sim shares this.

4: Infrared coefficient. Now i dont know too much about how that code works, but apparently the infrared coefficient per engine in the .lua is lower than the F/A-18Cs, which seems a bit weird since i do not see what would make the tomcat particularly stealthy in that area. Is it an artificial way to "nerf" IRST in the sim? It also affects the PK if infrared missiles, AIM-9X will stop tracking very easily against it, too.

You dont need to answer all of these questions but it would be nice to know the progress or reason for no progress on some of these topics.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:02 PM   #2
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Very good questions!

1) See here as well:
2) Great question, because Jester has indeed superhuman spotting abilities, even though HB always stated he won't have superhuman abilities.
3) I think I've never been killed with a single missile in the Tomcat and have survived up to 3 missiles multiple times, but often the first missile destroys criticial systems like a wing or the engines.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:12 PM   #3
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I agree with some of your points but not others.
The Tomcat actually seems to be one of the most fragile aircraft in the game. I've been shot down by one Aim-9 before. It seems to always take out the engines, or the hydraulics, or blow a wing off or something. The systems are so well modeled and the internal damage model so well done that a well placed missile or guns burst, even a small one, will doom the jet. Just last night as a matter of fact I got shot down by a snap shot from a Charlie that did nothing but take out the hydraulics. Maybe 5 rounds hit me, but they hit in the right places and I went into the drink.

I can't speak to jester because I almost never fly the Cat alone but I can say that the missiles appearing on datalink makes perfect sense due to how far reaching AWACS radar is so it may be a case where other data links in the sim need to be brought up to HB's standard and not the other way around.

For ECM, if that's how the actual system is then that's how it should be. If it's OP then either disable ECM in script or don't have the Tomcat in the mission. It's on Mission Makers and Server Admins to balance the game, not the Devs. The Dev's job is to bring us the most accurate and realistic module they possibly can. It's a simulator, not an arcade. Designing in balance at the developer level destroys the spirit and the intent of the program.

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Last edited by EightyEightMike (Mongo); 08-12-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:36 PM   #4
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In regards to 3 and 4. I've been shot down by single IR missiles a few times. I personally don't think there's an issue. Besides when I do survive from a hit, it generally either takes out an engine and/or hydraulics. The latter, more than likely, resulting in an mostly uncontrollable situation which will end up in the dirt eventually. Otherwise it will take out my radar in which case I'm mostly combat ineffective anyway. Now the SU-25.. There's a hard to kill tank. I have yet to kill one with a single Sidewinder. SU-23s, will also sometimes take more than one missile.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:38 PM   #5
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“Please nerf the plane that keeps beating me in MP because......balance.”

The 14, like every other module, has strengths and weaknesses. When I am smart, keep aggression in check, play to the 14’s strengths, and use the right tactic to fit the situation (which many times means to bug-out), I win. When I am dumb, too aggressive, allow the aircraft’s weaknesses to glare, and don’t use the right tactic for the situation, I loose. And when I loose, I just work on getting better.
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Old 08-12-2019, 04:15 PM   #6
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1. Jamming against the Tomcat works, turning on or off the jammer breaks lock, only it has no visual representation in the TID or DDD. Can't say if this will change atm.

2. Datalink is done by ED, we have only limited access to it. We'll see what we can do about this, we are aware of it.

3. The damage model, especially the internal one, is actually quite accurate. Rarely have I been hit and fought on, the one engagement with you was pure luck and I died before I made it back to the boat (fyi since you left the server). The external, visual representation is still a bit WIP, but the rest is in a pretty much finished state. The Tomcat for sure is tanky, but those who fly it often, will rather wish to share your experience. Not trying to downtalk you, honest impression.

4. I am not sure how the code works here either, but I would not take the numbers 1 for 1. might be in relation to aircraft size etc. in any case, I can assure you that everything we implemented, we did from the viewpoint "recreate Tomcat as accurately as possible" regardless of how it would influence its environment, or be influenced by it, positively or negatively, within the limits of DCS. Meaning: nerfing is not really part of our vocabulary and most certainly would never be the reason for a change or for a specific setting/ characteristic.

Hope that helps.
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Old 08-12-2019, 04:22 PM   #7
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Thanks for the answers, however if you believe that being able to fight after a single AIM-120 hit is a rare event, i would suggest some more testing to be done outside of public servers (where people usually dual launch within NEZ to avoid exactly what happened that day). R-27 will reliably kill it in one shot, but R-77 and AIM-120 in the majority of cases allow it to continue fighting for a good while. A single AIM-120 will also never or almost never kill the pilot despite direct head on hits.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:13 PM   #8
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R-77 warhead: 50 lbs
AIM-120A/B warhead: 50 lbs
AIM-120C/D warhead: 40 lbs

R-27 warhead: 86 lbs

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Old 08-12-2019, 06:58 PM   #9
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@Ironmike tested the Jamming, what you said about it is not correct. Tested with J11A and tomcat with pilot/RIO. Jamming on/OFF does not even break lock.
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:11 PM   #10
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If you expect every missile hit to insta-explode airplanes, your expectations are in the wrong place.

Try out IL-2 for a better-than-DCS demonstration of how airplanes can take damage. DCS damage modelling is extremely simplistic in comparison, even in the Tomcat which is undoubtedly as good as it can get in DCS.
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