Viggen Blackouts

Gents, just need a sense of opinion on this one. Does anyone else feel that the blackout on the viggen through relatively minor manoeuvres or negative G in some cases is far too immediate i.e instant blackout once turn/change has been perfromed? I'd expect the usual gradual grey to black out just not a insta-blackout. Quite annoying TBH as you rarely can get the aircraft back under control and is pretty much a dead cert crash :(

There is a lot of complaint about this in DCS. It's not something the developer can control, to my knowledge. Certainly, the pilot in DCS has questionable G tolerance.

Yes. I've blacked out and crashed a couple of times where I thought I wasn't pulling/pushing to ohard, but I didn't have an eye on the g-meter at the time. I guess I should have stayed in game log enough to get a tacview on it. Server ha a 10 min delay.

yes the G effect certainly seems exaggerated. In MP it shouldn't be too much of a problem as both sides are equally affected. But when you are chasing an AI who has unlimited energy and probably isn't affected by the G effect at all, it's a real issue.

I've been experiencing this sometimes usually as soon as I reach speedes over mach one. Specially if I fly with attitude hold and disengage that in supersonic speedes then I blackout instantly just because of the trim isn't aligned with the attitude hold. That blackout has always been unrecouverable. I think I never been able to have tunnelvision in the viggen yet. I hope this is considered as a bug and get fixed. I haven't experienced this severe blackouts in any other dcs aircraft yet.

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Pull 6+ Gs will make most people pass out and at the very least make them have an extremely bad time. We're sitting comfortably in our chairs with 1G whilst doing these manoeuvres. Maybe having the pilot a little bit sensitive to G is OK.

Yes the pilots will have a bad time at 6Gs if not correctly suited and doing their high G breathing techniques but this is insta-blackout. Even looking through many hours of youtube footage of pilots in a centrifuge pull 6+ Gs NONE of them black out immediately. Fast I've seen G-Loc'd is about 3-5 seconds which is PLENTY of time for us to release pressure on the stick to recover.

I've been experiencing this sometimes usually as soon as I reach speedes over mach one. Specially if I fly with attitude hold and disengage that in supersonic speedes then I blackout instantly just because of the trim isn't aligned with the attitude hold. That blackout has always been unrecouverable. I think I never been able to have tunnelvision in the viggen yet. I hope this is considered as a bug and get fixed. I haven't experienced this severe blackouts in any other dcs aircraft yet.

 

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This! Supersonic in autopilot and then insta-blackout leading to insta-death when disabling autopilot, it has killed me many times already.

Would really like to see it fixed since I'm guessing it can't be realistic, but I don't know if the problems lies in the autopilot or the g-force effects.

Guys the Problem you guys are mentioning (G-loc when leaving autopilot followed by crash) is due to Negative Gs not Positive Gs.

And Pilots are much more sensitive to Neg G then Pos G.

What happens is that as the aircraft accelerates into the Transonic region it will begin to pitch down

(and this has to be counteracted by Stick pressure or by Nose up Trim).

The same thing happens but the other way around when you are trimmed for Supersonic flight and decelerate below supersonic speed

which will cause a Pitch up movement (Though this is much less of a problem since you are unlikely to G-lock from it.)

The problem is that when using the Autopilot the autopilot will keep the aircraft nice and level but it will not change the trim of the aircraft

(instead using the Control surfaces as it you where applying stick pressure).

So when you leave the Autopilot the flight controls will be centered and the aircraft will have an extremely rapid pitch down movement resulting in heavy Negative Gs (due to the high speed) and it will usually result in G-loc.

So to avoid this remember to always have some back stick pressure (forcing the nose up) as you disable the autopilot (when in the Transonic or supersonic region) in order to counteract the Pitch down effect.

3-4 Negative Gs will be enough to cause a G-Loc where as 6-8G positive Gs can be held for several seconds before you start to get a danger for Blackout / G-Loc

All Gs are not Equal when it comes to G-Loc and you need to be careful about pulling Neg Gs.

And guys lets also differentiate between Blackout and G-Loc.

Positive Gs cause these effects in this order.

Grey out (There is graying of vision)

Tunnel Vission (getting closer to a Blackout as the field of view gets smaller and smaller with the black closing in towards the center).

Black out (No vision but still retaining consciousness you just cant see)

and then G-Loc (Pilot looses consciousness for an Avg of 12-15 seconds).

a Negative Gs cause these effects (and at much lower G numbers).

Red out (Vision turning red as you are pulling Negative Gs and getting closer to G-Loc).

G-Loc (Same as in Positive Gs).

So you guys are saying Blackout but it sounds like you guys mean G-Loc and especially if its pulling Negative Gs.

http://gizmodo.com/why-the-human-body-cant-handle-heavy-acceleration-1640491171

More info about G-Forces and G-Loc from Negative + Positive Gs etc.

Guys the Problem you guys are mentioning (G-loc when leaving autopilot followed by crash) is due to Negative Gs not Positive Gs.

 

And Pilots are much more sensitive to Neg G then Pos G.

 

What happens is that as the aircraft accelerates into the Transonic region it will begin to pitch down

(and this has to be counteracted by Stick pressure or by Nose up Trim).

 

The same thing happens but the other way around when you are trimmed for Supersonic flight and decelerate below supersonic speed

which will cause a Pitch up movement (Though this is much less of a problem since you are unlikely to G-lock from it.)

 

The problem is that when using the Autopilot the autopilot will keep the aircraft nice and level but it will not change the trim of the aircraft

(instead using the Control surfaces as it you where applying stick pressure).

 

So when you leave the Autopilot the flight controls will be centered and the aircraft will have an extremely rapid pitch down movement resulting in heavy Negative Gs (due to the high speed) and it will usually result in G-loc.

 

So to avoid this remember to always have some back stick pressure (forcing the nose up) as you disable the autopilot (when in the Transonic or supersonic region) in order to counteract the Pitch down effect.

 

3-4 Negative Gs will be enough to cause a G-Loc where as 6-8G positive Gs can be held for several seconds before you start to get a danger for Blackout / G-Loc

All Gs are not Equal when it comes to G-Loc and you need to be careful about pulling Neg Gs.

 

And guys lets also differentiate between Blackout and G-Loc.

 

Positive Gs cause these effects in this order.

 

Grey out (There is graying of vision)

Tunnel Vission (getting closer to a Blackout as the field of view gets smaller and smaller with the black closing in towards the center).

Black out (No vision but still retaining consciousness you just cant see)

and then G-Loc (Pilot looses consciousness for an Avg of 12-15 seconds).

 

a Negative Gs cause these effects (and at much lower G numbers).

 

Red out (Vision turning red as you are pulling Negative Gs and getting closer to G-Loc).

G-Loc (Same as in Positive Gs).

 

So you guys are saying Blackout but it sounds like you guys mean G-Loc and especially if its pulling Negative Gs.

 

 

http://gizmodo.com/why-the-human-body-cant-handle-heavy-acceleration-1640491171

 

More info about G-Forces and G-Loc from Negative + Positive Gs etc.

Ok agreed but it's not the fact that Redout/Blackout/Gloc happens its the speed at which it happens in the SIM i.e. Instant. I'm happy for the pilot to experience the effects but at a realistic rate.

Guys the Problem you guys are mentioning (G-loc when leaving autopilot followed by crash) is due to Negative Gs not Positive Gs.

 

And Pilots are much more sensitive to Neg G then Pos G.

 

What happens is that as the aircraft accelerates into the Transonic region it will begin to pitch down

(and this has to be counteracted by Stick pressure or by Nose up Trim).

 

The same thing happens but the other way around when you are trimmed for Supersonic flight and decelerate below supersonic speed

which will cause a Pitch up movement (Though this is much less of a problem since you are unlikely to G-lock from it.)

 

The problem is that when using the Autopilot the autopilot will keep the aircraft nice and level but it will not change the trim of the aircraft

(instead using the Control surfaces as it you where applying stick pressure).

 

So when you leave the Autopilot the flight controls will be centered and the aircraft will have an extremely rapid pitch down movement resulting in heavy Negative Gs (due to the high speed) and it will usually result in G-loc.

 

So to avoid this remember to always have some back stick pressure (forcing the nose up) as you disable the autopilot (when in the Transonic or supersonic region) in order to counteract the Pitch down effect.

 

3-4 Negative Gs will be enough to cause a G-Loc where as 6-8G positive Gs can be held for several seconds before you start to get a danger for Blackout / G-Loc

All Gs are not Equal when it comes to G-Loc and you need to be careful about pulling Neg Gs.

 

And guys lets also differentiate between Blackout and G-Loc.

 

Positive Gs cause these effects in this order.

 

Grey out (There is graying of vision)

Tunnel Vission (getting closer to a Blackout as the field of view gets smaller and smaller with the black closing in towards the center).

Black out (No vision but still retaining consciousness you just cant see)

and then G-Loc (Pilot looses consciousness for an Avg of 12-15 seconds).

 

a Negative Gs cause these effects (and at much lower G numbers).

 

Red out (Vision turning red as you are pulling Negative Gs and getting closer to G-Loc).

G-Loc (Same as in Positive Gs).

 

So you guys are saying Blackout but it sounds like you guys mean G-Loc and especially if its pulling Negative Gs.

 

 

http://gizmodo.com/why-the-human-body-cant-handle-heavy-acceleration-1640491171

 

More info about G-Forces and G-Loc from Negative + Positive Gs etc.

I'm with you on everything that you're saying but are you also saying that this is the way it was in real life? Because it just seems like a pretty major issue that they probably would have worked to find a solution to in real life, otherwise I can imagine losing quite a lot of pilots and planes to this little death-trap of a quirk in the aircraft.

I mean, I guess it's possible it really was like this, being a fighter pilot has of course always been a rather dangerous job, but I somehow doubt it since it seems like it should be possible to design an aircraft which does not do this (even back then).

The altitude hold autopilot isn't quite right in the Sim when passing through the transonic region.

The problem is, pitot/static information is unreliable when passing through Mach 1. If the regular altitude hold function was maintained, there would be massive pitching transients because the indicated altitude would fluctuate dramatically.

So the real aircraft mitigates this by switching, briefly, to the INS for altitude information. This behavior in the sim appears to have some quirks, which could be contributing to the issues noted here.

It would still be nice to not pass out from just bumping the nose down at high speeds.

it feels random to me.

+1 this is very annoying indeed. But I think it's a DCS bug as I had that happen in Flankers and Migs as well.