Introducing the VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle

There is no disputing that everyone's preference is individual, and I am not going to try and convince you otherwise ... but I do feel compelled to point out that a thumb stick in no way precludes you from (comfortably/easily) hitting a whole bunch of other switches with your thumb --- including multiple hat switches, multiple multi-stage push buttons, multiple rotaries etc.

 

 

The Saitek X-55/56 is a POS in terms of build quality, but in terms of ergonomics, it is a universe and a half ahead of the TMWH IMHO ...

I had an X-55, and while I did like the throttle, I hated the stick and ended up returning it.

The reason I prefer an index stick is because depending on the plane I'm flying I have target lock, FOV toggle, TGP zoom, target box size toggle, IR/CC toggle, radar range, radar scan modes, radar elevation, and a bunch of other stuff mapped to the thumb buttons. I found that using the Warthogs finger axis to be much easier than doing thumb gymnastics on the X55 while my finger sat there doing nothing. Also, being able to push left to slew the TGP/radar left and pushing right to slew it right to be preferable to pushing forward and backward to slew them left and right. As far as comfort and accuracy between the two I found there to be no difference.

I'm going to be ordering a Virpil throttle as soon as possible either way, but if it's at all possible I would much prefer an index finger axis over a thumb axis. If thats not possible I would take no axis and a hat instead and just assign the finger hat to the slew commands.

A question about the new mode switch from throttle.

Will this switch add new DirectInput buttons or it will simply add the possibility to map keyboard combos to the buttons for mode 2, 3 4 etc?

I wish you could have simply new direct input buttons (even axes) instead of mapping keyboard buttons.

[...] I do feel compelled to point out that a thumb stick in no way precludes you from (comfortably/easily) hitting a whole bunch of other switches with your thumb [...]

The point is not that a thumbstick totally prevents other interactions with the thumb but that it makes it impossible to press certain buttons at the same time i.e. while slewing the radar/tgp/etc i still want to be able to control the airbrakes/countermeasures/radio/etc with my thumb. You cannot do this simultaneously when your thumb is already busy manipulating the ministick as these inputs are usually controlled with the thumb as well.

I just hope VPC will give the possibility to choose between both variants as this was a thing i was looking forward to in a new throttle.

The Saitek X-55/56 is a POS in terms of build quality, but in terms of ergonomics, it is a universe and a half ahead of the TMWH IMHO ...

There i must agree that it is different strokes for different folks. I personally cannot stand the ergonomics of my X-55 throttle. :lol:

On another note, how did you get the mini-nipply-thingy on the X-55 to work? I cannot for the life of me get it to register within DCS :joystick:

I have not read the entire thread, but i still miss a three position pinky swtich or something on the left side of the left/outer throttle (like with the A-10). Something should be there for maximum adaptability, its wasted space and opportunity i reckon.

I have not read the entire thread, but i still miss a three position pinky swtich or something on the left side of the left/outer throttle (like with the A-10). Something should be there for maximum adaptability, its wasted space and opportunity i reckon.

+ 1

IIRC the Hornet has a similar switch, so that would fit as well. :thumbup:

On another note, how did you get the mini-nipply-thingy on the X-55 to work? I cannot for the life of me get it to register within DCS :joystick:

This IMHO indeed is the weakest point of the X-55!!!! So mushy, it's like twiddling your thumb in play-doh. When I "upgraded" to the TMWH, I was in for a shock when the it's nipple was even worse --- like twiddling your index finger in oatmeal! The X-56 did things right by making it a simple 4 or 8 way hat.

Aaaaaanway, to answer your question --- I got it to work decently enough by using the Saitek software to program it in bands, and sending the ";", ",", ".","/" key strokes for the various directions. So, essentially behaving like a 4-way hat instead of an analog device. Didn't like it, but learned to live with it :)

I have not read the entire thread, but i still miss a three position pinky swtich or something on the left side of the left/outer throttle (like with the A-10). Something should be there for maximum adaptability, its wasted space and opportunity i reckon.

Agreed., that is a very handy switch to have in a very convenient location.

Aaaaaanway, to answer your question --- I got it to work decently enough by using the Saitek software to program it in bands, and sending the ";", ",", ".","/" key strokes for the various directions. So, essentially behaving like a 4-way hat instead of an analog device. Didn't like it, but learned to live with it :)

Ah alright, thank you! :)

The point is not that a thumbstick totally prevents other interactions with the thumb but that it makes it impossible to press certain buttons at the same time i.e. while slewing the radar/tgp/etc i still want to be able to control the airbrakes/countermeasures/radio/etc with my thumb. You cannot do this simultaneously when your thumb is already busy manipulating the ministick as these inputs are usually controlled with the thumb as well.

This is a better explanation that the one I gave. If you look at their design if you go with a thumb stick, you only have access to the 4 way hat under the finger at the same time. If you go with a finger stick you can use a 4 way hat, two 2 way hats and a thumb button at the same time.

This is a better explanation that the one I gave. If you look at their design if you go with a thumb stick, you only have access to the 4 way hat under the finger at the same time. If you go with a finger stick you can use a 4 way hat, two 2 way hats and a thumb button at the same time.

I'm a touch confused... How are you guys activated activating so many buttons with your thumb *at the same time*? I can only ever really activate one binding with any digit at any one time...

Z...

I'm a touch confused... How are you guys activated activating so many buttons with your thumb *at the same time*? I can only ever really activate one binding with any digit at any one time...

 

Z...

This is kind of the point.

When using your thumb to manipulate the mini-stick you cannot use your thumb for activating any of the other buttons on the side of the throttle-grip (usually these buttons would have functions like radios, countermeasures, cage/uncage etc.).

However when using the index-finger to manipulate the mini-stick you can still activate your countermeasures/radios/etc with the buttons on the side of the throttle using your thumb.

This is the reason I prefer a mini-stick that is to be used with the index-finger. It's not just a thing of habit or getting used to a different layout but also has a direct effect on the ability to "multitask".

I am sorry if my previous explanation was a bit ambiguous. :)

So maybe a dumb question - what's the difference between an encoder rotary and just a normal rotary axis?

So maybe a dumb question - what's the difference between an encoder rotary and just a normal rotary axis?

I guess the rotary encoder is no axis, but has discrete physical positions (each of which can be assigned to a function in the software). To achieve that with a rotary axis, you would have to divide it into bands in the software itself and assign a function to each of the bands, but using it e.g. for a mode switch would be much less convenient because you wouldn't feel when it will switch between the positions.

On top of that, an axis has usually less than 360 degrees movement. Encoder can turn in each direction infinitely, so it can be mapped to all those frequency or heading knobs. Of course only if the devs allow you to map those functions (looking at you Razbam).

Ah ok, so it's not a true axis but essentially a series of buttons if I'm understanding you right - if the break was say 10 degrees you could theoretically have 36 button presses? Or is it more like what I have on the left hand side of my x-55 throttle where you can have what I'm thinking of as a single button in either direction that repeats?

Ah ok, so it's not a true axis but essentially a series of buttons if I'm understanding you right - if the break was say 10 degrees you could theoretically have 36 button presses? Or is it more like what I have on the left hand side of my x-55 throttle where you can have what I'm thinking of as a single button in either direction that repeats?

It's more like a series of buttons then, but that depends on the programming. Although, if Saitek's SST would allow you to program it (in a way that e.g. Target does), even that simple rotary thing on their throttles (which behaves as a repeated command) could have been programmed to emulate the rotary encoder behaviour (i.e. like having different outputs depending on the number of pushes and direction).

But, I'd presume the mode switch on Virpil's throttle has only the 5 indicated positions rather than an indefinite number?

So maybe a dumb question - what's the difference between an encoder rotary and just a normal rotary axis?

It's essentially like a momentary On-(Off)-(On) toggle switch but with rotary action. It has 2 momentary contacts, call them CW (clockwise) and CCW (counter-clockwise).CW closes momentarily (for a very short time) each time you turn the knob clockwise over the detent, and CCW closes momentarily when you turn the knob counter-clockwise over the detent. The detent is typically reached every 20 or so (depends on the mechanical design) degrees. If you turn the knob by 100 degrees clockwise you might get about 5 short closures of the CW contact. And so on.

I think the wheel on the left of the X56 throttle base is a rotary encoder. It's a very useful item - I use it as a mousewheel for VR use and for things like kneeboard pages next and previous. It can be really tedious, clicking through all those diagrams in the kneeboard, but with that thing you can zoom through them really quickly.

► VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle Update

 

Stay tuned for further updates.

Any updates for this project? Feb or March release? Timing of the mini stick version?

Thanks

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I'm also interested in this. Still "out of stock" in their web shop.

There is no disputing that everyone's preference is individual, and I am not going to try and convince you otherwise ... but I do feel compelled to point out that a thumb stick in no way precludes you from (comfortably/easily) hitting a whole bunch of other switches with your thumb --- including multiple hat switches, multiple multi-stage push buttons, multiple rotaries etc.

 

 

The Saitek X-55/56 is a POS in terms of build quality, but in terms of ergonomics, it is a universe and a half ahead of the TMWH IMHO ...

I'd wish they kept the button layout of the x-65 throttle on the x-55 with the extra base buttons. I'm still hanging onto my x-65 throttle as the number of hats plus rotaries hasn't been topped yet.

Does 2-way switches on the throttle handle have a middle position? Or is it just on-off switches?

Can Virpil software be programmed so that when press on will send one key and when release from on position will send another key?

Some are ON-OFF, some ON-OFF-ON or MON-OFF-MON... software for firmware programming or keyboard emulation is not available actually. Better await the final announcement of this throttle.

Some are ON-OFF, some ON-OFF-ON or MON-OFF-MON... software for firmware programming or keyboard emulation is not available actually. Better await the final announcement of this throttle.

I mean the switches on the throttle right handle, not on the base.

I thought VPC already launch their software suite. Is that just for calibration?

I mean the switches on the throttle right handle, not on the base.

From first page:

VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle Handles

2 x 2-way Switches <<< generally this mean a physically ON-OFF-ON switch, but in firmware can be assigned a button for switch OFF position (e.g. TUSBA adapter), but how will be was not informed.

I thought VPC already launch their software suite. Is that just for calibration?

The available VPC Configurator Light user guide - no buttons configuration option.

https://virpil.com/images/support/VPC-Configurator-Light---ENG.pdf