Change Wording: "Set SPI Generator" instead of "Make SPI"

Speak to Shagrat.. he knows what I am referring to. page 401 of the manual..Explains what defines the SPI.

 

 

 

For the TGP it is the LOS

 

For the TAD it is the hook symbol

For the maverick it is the Maverick LOS

For the HUD it is the STPT (default) or GUN SOLUTION/STPT/CCIP SOLUTION orCCIP RETICLE Depending on submode.

 

 

 

 

 

Shagrat is finally catching on.. you should speak directly to him for help.

What else is a 3D point?

A 3D point is a position, not a line! The SPI is a 3D point. LOS is a line. So a LOS can't be a SPI!

As for the Steerpoint, it is another common misunderstanding. You have only one Steerpoint, that is the point you are currently flying to.

You have a whole database of WAYpoints, can create MARKpoints and every single one of them can be selected as the Steerpoint. If you switch your Steerpoint from WP1 to WP2 (e.g. as part of a flight plan) the coordinates of the Steerpoint update to the new waypoint and along with the Steerpoint, moves the SPI, as long as no sensor is selected as SPI generator.

How long have you been flying like this?

 

Dunno, I think I spent 20 or 30 hours in the A-10C. And up until recently, whenever I slewed the TGP I subsequently pressed TMS up long once more, to "make SPI".

 

 

 

Who was your trainer? What did you think happened when you moved the TGP while the LOS was SPI?

 

No one, I just played the tutorial missions (where this concept isn't exactly precisely described) and read the manual (more than once, but the fact that the SPI is moved with slewing escaped me so far).

 

What does my being german have to do with it?

As for the Steerpoint, it is another common misunderstanding. You have only one Steerpoint, that is the point you are currently flying to.

You have a whole database of WAYpoints, can create MARKpoints and every single one of them can be selected as the Steerpoint. If you switch your Steerpoint from WP1 to WP2 (e.g. as part of a flight plan) the coordinates of the Steerpoint update to the new waypoint and along with the Steerpoint, moves the SPI, as long as no sensor is selected as SPI generator.

 

 

Yes only one steerpoint which is also a single point in 3d space that can be changed for another.

Speak to Shagrat.. he knows what I am referring to. page 401 of the manual..Explains what defines the SPI.

 

 

 

For the TGP it is the LOS

 

For the TAD it is the hook symbol

For the maverick it is the Maverick LOS

For the HUD it is the STPT (default) or GUN SOLUTION/STPT/CCIP SOLUTION orCCIP RETICLE Depending on submode.

 

 

 

 

 

Shagrat is finally catching on.. you should speak directly to him for help.

Believe me I was on point all the time. I learned that all during the beta phase nearly a decade ago... ;)

As for the Steerpoint, it is another common misunderstanding. You have only one Steerpoint, that is the point you are currently flying to.

You have a whole database of WAYpoints, can create MARKpoints and every single one of them can be selected as the Steerpoint. If you switch your Steerpoint from WP1 to WP2 (e.g. as part of a flight plan) the coordinates of the Steerpoint update to the new waypoint and along with the Steerpoint, moves the SPI, as long as no sensor is selected as SPI generator.

Good point! Let me rephrase my previous post then:

 

If you change the coordinates of a waypoint in the CDU it will still remain the same waypoint (Waypoint A) and not become a new waypoint (Waypoint B), but it will shift to a new position and so will the SPI.

A 3D point is a position, not a line! The SPI is a 3D point. LOS is a line. So a LOS can't be a SPI!

 

 

 

 

You are completely misunderstanding yet again. The LOS focuses on a single point that creates the SPI. When TGP LOS is SPI, it is NOT the entire output of the TGP screen , but the very center of it.

 

 

 

Shagrat I'll let you take over from here.

Shagrat is finally catching on.. you should speak directly to him for help.

Nowhere has he said that a SPI is a line (LOS), like you did.

You are completely misunderstanding yet again. The LOS focuses on a single point that creates the SPI. When TGP LOS is SPI, it is NOT the entire output of the TGP screen , but the very center of it.

 

Shagrat I'll let you take over from here.

Yes, the LOS focuses on a single point, and that point is the SPI, not the LOS itself. I'm glad you understand that now. :thumbup:

Good point! Let me rephrase my previous post then:

Yep, when it is selected as Steerpoint.

Good point! Let me rephrase my previous post then:

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't argue about it , but it is a different way point.

 

 

 

Let me give an example.

 

 

 

If 3 planes fly formation with the EXACT 8 WP (numbered 1-8 ) entered identically, fly together.

 

 

 

I decided I will change the coordinates in WP5 to another 200km away from its original.

 

 

We all travel together and all have STPT as SPI

 

 

What will happen when we reach WP4?

 

 

Will we now be travelling to the same WP? All 3 say WP5. will we have the same SPI?

Edited September 13, 2019 by Dagger71

Yes, the LOS focuses on a single point, and that point is the SPI, not the LOS itself. I'm glad you understand that now. :thumbup:

 

 

 

 

I never said otherwise. please re-read again. The LOS creates (or generates) the SPI..

I never said otherwise. please re-read again.

You said multiple times, that MAV line of sight can be a SPI, which it can't. The SPI is the position that the line of sight is pointing at, not the line of sight itself!

Yes, the LOS focuses on a single point, and that point is the SPI, not the LOS itself. I'm glad you understand that now.

Basically the LOS intersecting the terrain database information of the ground plane or whatever source provides the "groundfloor" information. Some triangulation of the point on the ground with GPS position, LOS direction and angle and the ground elevation intersecting the LOS...

EDIT out of my head it should be the CICU calculating this from the sensor inputs?

Edited September 13, 2019 by shagrat

You said multiple times, that MAV line of sight can be a SPI, which it can't. The SPI is the position that the line of sight is pointing at, not the line of sight itself!

 

 

 

 

Without the LOS there is no SPI.. The LOS focal point generates (creates) the SPI. You have a fundamental problem with understanding how the SOI "generates" (meaning creates) the SPI. look up page 401 of the manual. it will explain. Just as I have for the past 12 pages!!!

Edited September 13, 2019 by Dagger71

Basically the LOS intersecting the terrain database information of the ground plane or whatever source provides the "groundfloor" information. Some triangulation of the point on the ground with GPS position, LOS direction and angle and the ground elevation intersecting the LOS...

 

 

I'm so glad you are catching on! Listen to this man Quigon!

I wouldn't argue about it , but it is a different way point.

 

 

 

Let me give an example.

 

 

 

If 3 planes fly formation with the EXACT 8 WP (numbered 1-8 ) entered identically, fly together.

 

 

 

I decided I will change the coordinates in WP5 to another 200km away from its original.

 

 

We all travel together and all have STPT as SPI

 

 

What will happen when we reach WP4?

 

 

Will we now be travelling to the same WP? All 3 say WP5. will we have the same SPI?

Different levels. I was talking about the system level of a single aircraft. Within the CDU of your A-10C waypoint 5 will be waypoint 5, regardless if you change the coordinates or not. What you are talking about is not the systems level, but the mission level.

Different levels. I was talking about the system level of a single aircraft. Within the CDU of your A-10C waypoint 5 will be waypoint 5, regardless if you change the coordinates or not. What you are talking about is not the systems level, but the mission level.

 

 

 

 

What is system level? Are you refering to the flightplan???

Basically the LOS intersecting the terrain database information of the ground plane or whatever source provides the "groundfloor" information. Some triangulation of the point on the ground with GPS position, LOS direction and angle and the ground elevation intersecting the LOS...

EDIT out of my head it should be the CICU calculating this from the sensor inputs?

That's exactly what I said, isn't it? :huh:

 

Without the LOS there is no SPI.. The LOS focal point generates (creates) the SPI.

Yes, the LOS focal point designates the SPI, but the LOS itself is not that point. The LOS is an imaginary line that runs all the way from the TGP to the ground plane as shagrat said. So the LOS can't be a Sensor Point of Interest, as it is a line and not a point.

What is system level? Are you refering to the flightplan???

The systems/avionics of a specific aircraft, with the CDU at its heart in case of the A-10C.

Unlike a piece of paper with the flight plan or briefing on it and is being shared with all flight members, unlike the CDU which is specific to each aircraft.

Edited September 13, 2019 by QuiGon

What is system level? Are you refering to the flightplan???

This is actually "lost in translation". I have an idea what he meant, but I am not 100% sure @QuiGon "Systemebene im Sinne von einzelnem Flugzeug" statt "Geschwader/Rotte/Flugebene auf taktischer Ebene"?

That's exactly what I said, isn't it? :huh:

 

 

Yes, the LOS focal point designates the SPI, but the LOS itself is not that point. The LOS is an imaginary line that runs all the way from the TGP to the ground plane as shagrat said. So the LOS can't be a Sensor Point of Interest, as it is a line and not a point.

 

 

 

 

The LOS is NOT imaginary! As Shagrat explained to you, it ends at a specifically calculated point on the ground!! It is calculated using INS GPS, gimbals among other critical components.

 

 

Can you guess what that point on the ground is called??

This is actually "lost in translation". I have an idea what he meant, but I am not 100% sure @QuiGon "Systemebene im Sinne von einzelnem Flugzeug" statt "Geschwader/Rotte/Flugebene auf taktischer Ebene"?

 

 

 

 

It's been like this then entire time. He's the Bill Murray of the Warthog forums!!!

That's exactly what I said, isn't it? :huh:

 

 

Yes, the LOS focal point designates the SPI, but the LOS itself is not that point. The LOS is an imaginary line that runs all the way from the TGP to the ground plane as shagrat said. So the LOS can't be a Sensor Point of Interest, as it is a line and not a point.

Yep, that's why the term "designates" a SPI is quite good. The LOS designated the point by intersecting the groundplane, this enables the CICU to calculate the SPI coordinates.

The systems/avionics of a specific aircraft, with the CDU at its heart in case of the A-10C.

Unlike a piece of paper with the flight plan or briefing on it and is being shared with all flight members, unlike the CDU which is specific to each aircraft.

 

 

 

 

What does that have to do with changing Waypoints?????