How good is the Ka-50 flight model?

Hey guys, just out of curiosity what is the general consensus on how good Ka-50 flight model is?

I guess it's probably not easy to find anyone who has flown a full scale coaxial helicopter to evaluate it eh? I've only taken a couple quick test flights in it to date but I like the sound and feel of it so far. :thumbup:

Same level as A10 C.... Ahm no let's say the A 10 C is at the same level as the Ka 50 because it's been the first Dcs module.

It's fully simulated.

Top notch flight model eh? Sweet. I'm really looking forward to spending some time with this one, though combat doesn't look very exciting based on youtube vids LOL.

Top notch flight model eh? Sweet. I'm really looking forward to spending some time with this one, though combat doesn't look very exciting based on youtube vids LOL.

I have no idea what youtube videos you are watching. But be sure that it is alot harder than you may think.

The FM is probably as close you can get to Ka-50 in a sim. ED got a lot of info and input from Kamov during development. There is a guy on the forums who has flown a bunch of different helicopters and thought it behaved close to the coaxial Ka-32 helicopter. In general, if the module is made by ED or Belsimtek, you can expect very high fidelity and stability (few bugs or other issues)

The FM is probably as close you can get to Ka-50 in a sim. ED got a lot of info and input from Kamov during development. There is a guy on the forums who has flown a bunch of different helicopters and thought it behaved close to the coaxial Ka-32 helicopter. In general, if the module is made by ED or Belsimtek, you can expect very high fidelity and stability (few bugs or other issues)

Yeah I've learned that on the forums over the past few weeks and now favor Belsimtek and ED modules. That is not to say I won't buy others but when it comes time to choose a module that does get factored in.

Mostly this is because I feel like I got burned a little on the Gazelle. Hopefully PolyChop will be able to get it up to near the standard for the BST and ED helicopters. Especially since I'm a long way into a Gazelle sim cockpit build for multi-crew.

I have no idea what youtube videos you are watching. But be sure that it is alot harder than you may think.

Oh I'm sure that the overall task of flying missions presents a nice challenge. I was just referring to the actual shooting which appears to be find a good spot and autohover while you aim and shoot with the camera.

I need to decide whether to make my next heli-pit (will be a partial) Ka-50 or Huey. I also need to decide which fixed wing aircraft to make a partial pit for first. A-10C or Spitfire most likely, though F-86 is also in the running.

One thing to note that however good the flight model (and everything I have read indicates that it is very good, with the physics and aerodynamics of different sections of the blades and body modeled independently) the Ka-50 flies noticeably differently from a "normal" helicopter. In fact, while it is capable of a lot of acrobatics, flying (as opposed to fighting in it) it is far less interesting than any of the other DCS helicopters, the Gazelle included. It is a very well-trained bird in that regard, by design. Throw in a incredibly capable autopilot, and the fact is you will be doing even less flying, especially in combat, as, most times, the computer will be doing lots of things for you. IIRC, in principle you can have the Ka-50 fly you to the engagement point following the programmed route, you take over for a minute and find a good position, then ask the Ka-50 to hold a hover while you unless fiery steel of doom on the targets, then ask the Ka-50 to fly back home following the programmed route. In principle, at least. And even the basic flying you do requires so much less coordination than the Huey/Hip/Gazelle.

My ultra-micro RC helicopters taught me that. I actually stayed away from coaxial helis because they are too easy to fly!

Mostly I flew Blade mSR, SR 120, and mCPX.

@Isegrim Especially after Bearfoot's comment, can you try to describe to me the difficulty you mentioned in flying the Ka-50?

well i guess its hard to find someone who can answer your question with a high degree of accuracy (beeing either an actual coaxial pilot or aircraft engeneer)

since i am neither one or the other, rate my comment with an accuracy of an early AIM7 ;)

So the flightmodel: It feels real and convincing is all i can say and if you switch of all Assists it becomes a real handfull.

Regarding YT-Vids, the Ka50 has an...interresting Autopilot/Trim System which makes it a stable platform so you can concentrate on other things (remember its a solo machine in a time where the cobra/apache has 2 people). And that will get you into your sniping spot and home. But the challange comes from handling the Assists when things go south and you need to perform some extrem manouvers without the to blades kissing each other.

As for the combat, if i would be a real pilot i would want a boring mission because i dont want to die. So its about prePlaning and approach , if the enemy shoots at you theres something gone wrong in the planning room. even in a fast and competitive MP enviroment, you (should) know on take off where your sniping spot will be.

as allways my last comment. If you want seat of your pants action, the ka50 might not be your bird but it you are the "sniper"-type of player whos fun comes from crawling 30min throu the mud to get the perfect kill, the Ka50 might be for you.

and if you realy mastered everything, start hunting fighterJets... ;)

Looking from another perspective:

I have yet to find a situation in flight where the Ka-50 does not behave in a way that you think "damn, this is REAL".

It's a very ripe product imho.

You might also want to hold off a little on your new simpit. Mi-24P from Belsimtek and Bo-105 from Poly-Dynamics are probably coming this year.

The Mi-24 with multicrew will be cool. It is big and fast and can carry plenty of weapons.

Judging by the Belsimtek Mi-8 FM (one of the most impressive FM in DCS) I think we are in for a real treat with the Hind.

Bo-105 has a pretty big cool factor aswell, described by pilots as a low flying "Rally-helicopter", and coming in a few different variants. I will however be a little more careful this time around and wait for reviews and a couple of updates to make sure it's up to standards before buying.

Just get it,, you will not be disappointed!

@Isegrim Especially after Bearfoot's comment, can you try to describe to me the difficulty you mentioned in flying the Ka-50?

Of course I don't know for sure what Ise wanted to say.

From my perspective, learning the Ka-50's handling is what makes it difficult. With the Huey, the seat-of-the-pants feeling means that it'll feel pretty impossible to handle until it somehow "clicks" and all of a sudden muscle memory takes over and you don't have to think about flying all that much any longer.

While the same is ultimately true of the Ka-50 as well, the way that the autopilot and stability augmentation systems are interwoven with trim and cyclic trim means that you'll have to master understanding the systems more than mastering flying the beast.

Once you've learned that, you can let the chopper do most of the flying, and you can do crazy, hands-on aerobatics just as well. Until then, you'll probably be fighting the AP for a long while (or maybe not, since there are more and better resources now than way back when I learned to fly the chopper).

Ultimately, making it look so easy is a pretty complex and difficult task and takes a lot of practice.

That said, Ise is one of the most knowledgeable Ka-50 pilots I know of, I'm also eager to get more input on the topic at hand. :)

The Mi-24 with multicrew will be cool.

Oh? Multicrew? Like in the UH-1? Not meaning to derail the topic, but I wouldn't and won't accept "Multicrew" as a marketing argument unless someone actually finishes it.

While the same is ultimately true of the Ka-50 as well, the way that the autopilot and stability augmentation systems are interwoven with trim and cyclic trim means that you'll have to master understanding the systems more than mastering flying the beast.

In that regard, here is a good explanation of the Kamov Auto-pilot.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=36246

When you get used to the way it flies it does really well in close in combat. You can get the gun lined up easily because it spins so easily and you can fire missiles close in by putting the circle on the target and firing. The thing is it is so effective at long range you really don't want to get close in very often.

slyfly

It's good to hear that you can go for up close and personal combat if you are bored with sniping. =)

You would never do that by choice IRL of course, but going full Rambo is fun in sims!

You might also want to hold off a little on your new simpit. Mi-24P from Belsimtek and Bo-105 from Poly-Dynamics are probably coming this year.

 

The Mi-24 with multicrew will be cool. It is big and fast and can carry plenty of weapons.

Judging by the Belsimtek Mi-8 FM (one of the most impressive FM in DCS) I think we are in for a real treat with the Hind.

 

Bo-105 has a pretty big cool factor aswell, described by pilots as a low flying "Rally-helicopter", and coming in a few different variants. I will however be a little more careful this time around and wait for reviews and a couple of updates to make sure it's up to standards before buying.

BelsimTek still hasn't made getting multi-crew into their existing helis a priority, do we know that multi-crew is going to happen with the Mi-24 in a reasonable timespan?

On another note, looking through the Squadron directory it seems that the Ka-50 is the only helicopter with lots of multiplayer groups flying it.

On another note, looking through the Squadron directory it seems that the Ka-50 is the only helicopter with lots of multiplayer groups flying it.

The fact that it has been around for something like eight years (twice as long as the Huey) probably has a lot to do with that. Of course, the fact that it is a true combat helicopter doesn't hurt, either. :)

The fact that it has been around for something like eight years (twice as long as the Huey) probably has a lot to do with that. Of course, the fact that it is a true combat helicopter doesn't hurt, either. :)

I think four years is enough that if it was going to catch on I think it would have by now. I just posted a thread seeking Huey groups. I want to see some video examples of multiplayer ops so I have a good idea of what I'd have in store for me if I commit to the Huey.

Huey or KA-50 is a tough choice for me, I already own both but which to focus on learning and build a partial VR pit.

I just posted a thread seeking Huey groups.

Probably not a match for you because we're a German group, but we do have a dedicated Huey squadron, aiming for full real ops. I'm sure there are many other Huey squads around. The Huey is both versatile and iconic.

Of course the Ka-50 is a real killer on the battlefield, even more so when operated in a coordinated fashion by experienced players.

In any case, there are many mission types available for the Huey, plus the chances of meeting RL Huey pilots on TeamSpeak are like 500 times higher than meeting RL Ka-50 pilots (based on the number of airframes built). And that's not taking into account that most of those Ka-50 pilots might not even speak English. ;)

Probably not a match for you because we're a German group, but we do have a dedicated Huey squadron, aiming for full real ops. I'm sure there are many other Huey squads around. The Huey is both versatile and iconic.

 

Of course the Ka-50 is a real killer on the battlefield, even more so when operated in a coordinated fashion by experienced players.

 

In any case, there are many mission types available for the Huey, plus the chances of meeting RL Huey pilots on TeamSpeak are like 500 times higher than meeting RL Ka-50 pilots (based on the number of airframes built). And that's not taking into account that most of those Ka-50 pilots might not even speak English. ;)

Yurgon, Thanks for letting me know! I'm a night owl so the schedule might be ok for me to run with Germans, but I speak only English so that might be an issue. Do you guys have any videos of these operations I can watch?

Oh I'm sure that the overall task of flying missions presents a nice challenge. I was just referring to the actual shooting which appears to be find a good spot and autohover while you aim and shoot with the camera.

 

I need to decide whether to make my next heli-pit (will be a partial) Ka-50 or Huey. I also need to decide which fixed wing aircraft to make a partial pit for first. A-10C or Spitfire most likely, though F-86 is also in the running.

just a suggestion. ED should be releasing the f18 module this year and that would make for a very cool pit project. you could even start the pit before the module is released. oh and as far as the KA50 FM acuuracy is concerned. from what i understand ED built this module originally for their military flight sim side of the company and this was used to train actual ka50 pilots. So the FM is as accurate as you can get since it was approved for training actual ka50 pilots. now of course the copy we have for the entertainment side of the company has some changes for not divulging classified info but i dont think the FM had any modifications from the military sim version.

Ok I know that the A-10C was originally developed for military training but the Ka-50 too?!

Once I learn it I might change my mind, but I'm not super keen on modern fighter combat (BVR especially). I did get the F-15 so I'll try that eventually.

As far as modern jets the A-10C will be my pit choice because of the number of campaigns and active multiplayer squadrons supporting it. I'll also be doing a WWII pit.

The big question for me right now though, is Huey pit or Black Shark pit. I'll probably do very basic pits for both, but I've got to prioritize. Hell first I need to finish the Gazelle pit, but my enthusiasm for that project has been dampened somewhat by the flight model issues and the vibe I've gotten from PolyChop.