Is the BF-109 flight unstabl in real histroy?

I have seen historical fact that the landing and takeoff of the 109 is unstable.

But like DCS, LEVEL-flight is very unstable and nose and yaw shake very much

Overall, the flight is too unstable. DCS BF109 flight FM is close to real one? im just qestion,

i have fw-190 is very fine but bf109 is hard to control

i`m off turn off all asstance take off , no auto rudder

So far I know: yes.

There was no trim function for the roll axis. So the bird is rolling permanently into left or Right direction. Depends on the airspeed. The Germans had steel plates to trim the bird into a stable flight -around 350 km/h.

The fuselage was very light (only around 3500kg) but the Germans were crazy enough to boost it with an 1370 PS engine (HP). Plus that crazy stupid undercarriage- Thanks to the Ministry of the Reich.

Overall, the Me109 is not that big deal. She was more deadly for their own pilots. Try to fly it and try to survive. Use Hit and run-tactics.

This Video can give some impressions- just check rudder and stick work while T/O and Landing

Cheers

Tom

Judging from onboard videos on youtube, it seems much easier to fly the real one. Keep in mind that a joystick with little travel and a middle position makes things harder. I don't like flying the 109 and 190 in DCS, they are both too unstable.

Just learn to fly this thing and you will be fine.

"unstable FM" this get me triggered.

Can you at least point out what is wrong, because unstable FM tells me nothing.

I haven't encounter any shaking in yaw or pitch axis

So far I know: yes.

There was no trim function for the roll axis.

Tom

There is in options in special tab you can set aileron trim set it to -27 and you will be ok

Should be fun when the Mossie arrives, with it being notoriously tail-heavy & twitchy...

I have not noticed anything particularily unstable about the 109 or the 190s ( especially the Anton, that thing feels super stable if a bit liable to drop a wing at times ). All ww2 planes we have are lacking the seat feel from what are very aerobatic aircraft IRL, so they are going to be fairly hard.

The way the 109 is trimmed right now (artificially) is for cruising @ 1.0-1.2ATA and ~400km/h. In combat we rarely use those settings so the plane has the tendency to pitch up @ combat speeds. All my trimming buttons succumbed at some point because of the constant need to trim it when trying to track the target. The real plane has elevator trim tabs which could be set by the ground crew but not in the game and nobody knows why it wasn't introduced.. We asked Yo-Yo to add it, but to no avail.

The way the 109 is trimmed right now (artificially) is for cruising @ 1.0-1.2ATA and ~400km/h. In combat we rarely use those settings so the plane has the tendency to pitch up @ combat speeds. All my trimming buttons succumbed at some point because of the constant need to trim it when trying to track the target. The real plane has elevator trim tabs which could be set by the ground crew but not in the game and nobody knows why it wasn't introduced.. We asked Yo-Yo to add it, but to no avail.

Yo-yo was saying something about that, when you trim down too much pilot could not pull up at all.

@amazingme: In the book series "The German Aces Speak" it was mentioned by one of the pilots (forgot who said it) that a lot of German pilots liked to trim their planes so that they always had to use forward pressure to fly level, which would mean that during dogfights, it was easier for them to enter into turning fights.

Yo-yo was saying something about that, when you trim down too much pilot could not pull up at all.

Then we can trim it the opposite way.. And how much is that "too much"? Trim tabs are there with a clear purpose and flying @6000m would allow the pilot to pull out easily. The other problem with the 109 are the stick forces which, again, are artificially introduced. Many people were banned for bringing this subject over and over but just because this is NOT as it should be. All literature says the stick becomes stiff after 700km/h IAS but in the game it start lagging at half of that speed and together with the missing the elevator trim tabs it gives you this feeling of 'instability'..

Then we can trim it the opposite way.. And how much is that "too much"? Trim tabs are there with a clear purpose and flying @6000m would allow the pilot to pull out easily. The other problem with the 109 are the stick forces which, again, are artificially introduced. Many people were banned for bringing this subject over and over but just because this is NOT as it should be. All literature says the stick becomes stiff after 700km/h IAS but in the game it start lagging at half of that speed and together with the missing the elevator trim tabs it gives you this feeling of 'instability'..

Not much more, even now when airspeed is high let say 500-600 IAS and you have trim nose down it can pull very little G.

I think all planes in dcs have stick forces modeled.

Not much more, even now when airspeed is high let say 500-600 IAS and you have trim nose down it can pull very little G.

I think all planes in dcs has stick force modeled.

Just the 109 has stick forces.. and they're exaggerated implemented in DCS. And one simple question arises.. How do you simulate one hand pull vs 2 hands pull?

Just the 109 has stick forces.. and they're exaggerated implemented in DCS. And one simple question arises.. How do you simulate one hand pull vs 2 hands pull?

If so, why only 1 plane? what's the point of that? In p-51 no one was pulling with 2 hands 1 hand was enough. In p-51 aileron full deflection often require 2 hands to do it quick.

This lag on bf 109 stick this annoy me a bit.

If so, why only 1 plane? what's the point of that? In p-51 no one was pulling with 2 hands 1 hand was enough. In p-51 aileron full deflection often require 2 hands to do it quick.

This lag on bf 109 stick this annoy me a bit.

Join the club, what can I say..

You guyz want some cheez with that whine?

@amazingme: In the book series "The German Aces Speak" it was mentioned by one of the pilots (forgot who said it) that a lot of German pilots liked to trim their planes so that they always had to use forward pressure to fly level, which would mean that during dogfights, it was easier for them to enter into turning fights.

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You guyz want some cheez with that whine?

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Do you have any intelligent answers or just troll around..

 

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If you want an echo chamber, may I suggest a read only blog. ''Nyaaaarrr, trim tabs nyaaaarrr'' @@ Not exactly intelligent either

If you want an echo chamber, may I suggest a read only blog. ''Nyaaaarrr, trim tabs nyaaaarrr'' @@ Not exactly intelligent either

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1. The Germans had steel plates to trim the bird into a stable flight -around 350 km/h.

2. The fuselage was very light (only around 3500kg) but the Germans were crazy enough to boost it with an 1370 PS engine (HP).

3. Plus that crazy stupid undercarriage- Thanks to the Ministry of the Reich.

4. She was more deadly for their own pilots.

1. Wrong. Where were these 'steel plates' located in your opinion?

2. Completely wrong. Even the DOW for the complete 109 was only ~2000kg and what's 'crazy' about using a 1370hp engine?

3. The Spitfire has an very similar narrow track landing gear, what's so 'crazy stupid' about it?

4. Don't know where you've got this 'info' from.

FYI, the first 109 versions had only ~700hp engines and the landing gear and tail size were perfectly adequate for these versions, absolutely not 'deadly'.

Problem with bf 109 landing gear is not that is narrow, problem is with that gear is angled outside, so when you allow plane to yaw to left or right wheels tend to dig in to the ground, so pilots have to be very precise to not let plane yaw too much because margin of safety for bf 109 is quite narrow compare to spitfire.

Spitfire was starting with about same power as bf109.

If the 109 would have been actually that horrible from its beginnings, I severely doubt that it would have become the standard fighter.

If the 109 would have been actually that horrible from its beginnings, I severely doubt that it would have become the standard fighter.

If you would see competition for bf-109, you would choose bf-109 too :P.

You've forgot the main competitor…

You've forgot the main competitor…

Still was quite behind bf 109.