Can You Fly Formation Aerobatics Without Multiplayer?

Hey folks,

I remember many years ago FS2004 had a third party tool to record any flight you did and then play it back as an AI aircraft in another flight. Basically it meant if you wanted to do some aerobatics in formation you could record yourself first as flight lead, then start another flight and play back your recording as an AI aircraft and fly formation with it. So basically you could do formation aerobatics without having to deal with multiplayer.

Is there anything like this for DCS?

Many thanks!

You could in theory set some aerobatic figures for the AI and follow if.

you could make a trackfile of your 1st flight have ai in it, then at the start take control of the ai aircraft? i do not know if that works just maybe something you can try.

you could make a trackfile of your 1st flight have ai in it, then at the start take control of the ai aircraft? i do not know if that works just maybe something you can try.

Not sure how that works but I'll have a look once I have DCS installed on my new system in the next week or so.

I asked the same question in the mission editor sub but no answers. I tried changing track files to mission files with all kind of options regarding AI aircraft but could not make it work. You are not able to fly an aircraft during replay of a track, and i could not find a way for an AI to fly a recorded track in a mission. So if anybody knows a way how to do this, i would love to know. I guess we need a new option which is a combination between flying and replaying a mission.

You could in theory set some aerobatic figures for the AI and follow if.

The answer is right here.

DCS AI already has aerobatic tasks that you can make it perform. They're useful not only for aerobatics but for scripting maneuvers in air combat or combat training missions.

You set these like any other Advanced Waypoint action.

By coincidence, i have just downloaded the Serpent's Head campaign, by @glynlewis from User Files, and the first mission involves flying in formation with 3 AI Hornets.

Although it' might not be what you'd call aerobatics, with a few 10 degree turns, it does prove that it can be done, albeit with a significant amount of creativity and a good level of aptitude with the mission editor.

You might even be able to get it to score your performance or give a pass/fail, probably based on an average of how far you are from where you should be, but that would be a bit more complicated, i suspect.

it might be a fun mission to fly, if you could pull it off.

All of these options sound very very limited. I'm quite frankly amazed that in so many years of doing this ED hasn't created something like this already. Can't be very difficult to implement!

Combat is great and all but being able to create your own aerobatic routine would be sensational with all the cool planes we have now! Especially if you eliminate multiplayer lag and not having to rely on another person for smoothness of control inputs.

On the contrary, as Exorcet has pointed out, there is the option to have an AI flight perform not only aerobatics in general, but give them a specific sequence of 'tricks' to do. I wouldn't call that terribly limited.

That being said, with AI planes using their own simplified flight model, one has to be careful to adjust their aerobatics routine in a way which will not prevent you from following their maneuvers using your flight model.

The aerobatics figures that are in the mission editor for AI are not usable for formation aerobatics practice. Their maneuvering is not based on an actual flight model, but just pre-programmed tracks. An AI will pull instantaneously from level flight into a 7g loop for example. These maneuvers are just suitable as background traffic in your mission. The possibility to record your own track, which DCS does already, and then use that for an AI to fly should be very easy to implement, and i think could also be very useful in combat mission creation.

The aerobatics figures that are in the mission editor for AI are not usable for formation aerobatics practice. Their maneuvering is not based on an actual flight model, but just pre-programmed tracks. An AI will pull instantaneously from level flight into a 7g loop for example. These maneuvers are just suitable as background traffic in your mission. The possibility to record your own track, which DCS does already, and then use that for an AI to fly should be very easy to implement, and i think could also be very useful in combat mission creation.

You have quite a bit of control over the AI routine. You can control the g or rates they pull in some maneuvers to make sure its within the limits of your aircraft.

It will take a little time to set up, but you can definitely use it for formation flying.

Some examples I found on Youtube:

You have quite a bit of control over the AI routine. You can control the g or rates they pull in some maneuvers to make sure its within the limits of your aircraft.

 

 

It will take a little time to set up, but you can definitely use it for formation flying.

As you can see in both those examples, the human pilot is not able at all to stay in close formation during anything but the shallow constant turns. During the loop in the first video the AI pulls completely away. For us guys who do formation aerobatics, there is a lot of finesse in how we enter, hold and exit maneuvers, and do this within a few feet from each other. The AI makes instant flight path changes that we can never follow. I'm sure that's what the OP was asking about. Being able to fly against a recorded track would be an amazing training tool for formation aerobatics guys.

As you can see in both those examples, the human pilot is not able at all to stay in close formation during anything but the shallow constant turns. During the loop in the first video the AI pulls completely away. For us guys who do formation aerobatics, there is a lot of finesse in how we enter, hold and exit maneuvers, and do this within a few feet from each other. The AI makes instant flight path changes that we can never follow. I'm sure that's what the OP was asking about. Being able to fly against a recorded track would be an amazing training tool for formation aerobatics guys.

I don't have any problem with a track recording being available in game, but the thread posed the question of solo formation flying. You do have to work with the AI flight model (though it's going to be improved later) but it's not a complete deal breaker. If the AI pulls maneuvers that you can't quite follow, you can tweak the maneuver itself along with AI weight (change fuel/loadout) and skill (not sure if this impacts aerobatics though).

If the real desire here is a specific kind of solo AI flying through self recording, that's fair, but it's not totally clear in the initial post.

Yeah I'm sorry but I think what the AI aerobatic maneuvers offer in the editor is extremely limited to put it politely. Even let's say the totally unrealistic flight model aside for AI completing aerobatic maneuvers, there is just a massive lack of options as to the display you want to fly.

I mean take any normal formation display that involves various transitions between maneuvers, perhaps inverted flight, maybe a wing over or a high alpha pass, perhaps an abrupt break etc etc etc.

There is simply no way you could even build a realistic display routine using AI tracks and maneuvers.

Having a tool to play back a recording as AI basically opens up huge rage of creative opportunities for creating your own formation displays, and perhaps even multi-ship displays too. I think we all need to group together and ask ED to implement this. How hard can it be from a technical stand point? Hell, I'd even pay money for a tool like this.

I mean take any normal formation display that involves various transitions between maneuvers, perhaps inverted flight, maybe a wing over or a high alpha pass, perhaps an abrupt break etc etc etc.

Well if the AI tasks don't meet your needs, then that's that. What confuses me a bit though is that all the things you list are possible to add to a AI routine in the mission editor.

Well if the AI tasks don't meet your needs, then that's that. What confuses me a bit though is that all the things you list are possible to add to a AI routine in the mission editor.

If that is indeed the case then I do apologise, I didn't realise you can get AI to fly upside down or choose transition between maneuvers. I'll have to check it out once I havd DCS back up and running in a few days.

I asked the same question in the mission editor sub but no answers. I tried changing track files to mission files with all kind of options regarding AI aircraft but could not make it work. You are not able to fly an aircraft during replay of a track, and i could not find a way for an AI to fly a recorded track in a mission. So if anybody knows a way how to do this, i would love to know. I guess we need a new option which is a combination between flying and replaying a mission.

You can, by hitting Esc. and selecting "Take Control". I don't know if there's a way to switch among multiple aircraft though.:pilotfly:

Literally the very first sentence in this thread is about solo formation flying with a track recording! I think it's a great idea. It reminds me of "ghost" recordings in auto racing games where you can race against your previous best run on a track.

I don't have any problem with a track recording being available in game, but the thread posed the question of solo formation flying.If the real desire here is a specific kind of solo AI flying through self recording, that's fair, but it's not totally clear in the initial post.

Did you try to fly your routine, track to mission, then add another aircraft and fly the new one?

Did you try to fly your routine, track to mission, then add another aircraft and fly the new one?

Errr, no... what do you mean by "track to mission"? How do you do that? :huh:

You can only take control of an aircraft you previously controlled in the track, not just any aircraft.

You can convert a track to a mission file assuming you are using the same DCS version the track was recorded on just by renaming it, then add a new flyable aircraft, then fly the new aircraft while your previous aircraft follows your old track file flight. That's what I mean by track to mission.

Pretty sure when you convert it to a mission and run it again, the old aircraft does not follow the track but the original mission. Will have to double check that though.