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Old 07-12-2019, 02:13 PM   #31
Strong05
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Whaaaat, whilst I agree generally that more CPU is better than less CPU, with DCS (if that's the only thing you care about) It's mainly single-core speed you should look for. Playing DCS on my i5 9600k running at 5Ghz maxes out at 40% I'd say I've got too much CPU (or to be precise, the RTX 2080 I have is the limiting factor on frame rates not the CPU. My old i5 4670k was running at 4.5Ghz permanently...! so a 4.5 boost speed for ryzen is nothing really to boast about when compared to Intel boost speeds or overclocking capabilities. That coupled with Ryzen's apparent dependence on compatible memory and the relatively low speeds of that memory would say to me not to bother with Ryzen for DCS as it doesn't add much value, if any.
Currently you are correct that DCS is very clock sensitive. However what you are not considering is how many instructions per clock cycle (IPC) that a CPU can do. This is an important factor and why many times a CPU can complete a task much faster at the same clock speed as an older cpu. The new Ryzen cpu's complete more IPC's then the current Intel CPU's. What I'd like to see is if it's enough to overcome their clock deficit (compared to intel) with DCS.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:44 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Yeti42 View Post
It's mainly single-core speed you should look for. Playing DCS on my i5 9600k running at 5Ghz maxes out at 40% I'd say I've got too much CPU (or to be precise, the RTX 2080 I have is the limiting factor on frame rates not the CPU. My old i5 4670k was running at 4.5Ghz permanently...! so a 4.5 boost speed for ryzen is nothing really to boast about when compared to Intel boost speeds or overclocking capabilities. That coupled with Ryzen's apparent dependence on compatible memory and the relatively low speeds of that memory would say to me not to bother with Ryzen for DCS as it doesn't add much value, if any.
Yeah, should have clarified dcs can't use more than 2 cores yet, but worth mentioning there's talk that the bigger ryzen3 cpu's overclock better (eg at lower voltage) if that's what you're into. Between that and the IPC it's not bad. I don't think it's any better than intel, but ya know if you can get close with a $250 CPU, a $100 mobo and $200 of RAM, well... what's the marginal benefit? and what's the marginal cost? that's AMD's business model in a nutshell and I gotta give em credit

You make a valid point, question is, what's enough? In VR at least i've noticed a lot of variability in CPU render times, it really depends on what's going on in the map. Flying solo over the caucasus is a lot different from spawning in GAW during prime time lol I'm not sure what it would take to cram that through a single core. But it sure is fun to try
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:02 PM   #33
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Yeah, should have clarified dcs can't use more than 2 cores yet
maybe at one point this was the case, but i don’t think this is true anymore

there have been multiple posts here that show DCS uses a bunch of execution threads and each of those threads can be assigned to separate cpu cores (unless limited by process lasso, or some other utility).
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:30 PM   #34
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But one should point out that ED has made no official statement to this effect , and that the last , only a few weeks ago , re-iterated 2 cores . One wonders though , if perhaps those multi-core posters are seeing early Vulkan tests short of full implementation . Certainly performance seems up marginally , and something seems to have changed with Voiceattack , which now seems to cause stuttering issues on my system .
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:09 PM   #35
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You can literally go into task manager and disable all but 2 cores and see no degradation in DCS FPS/performance. Kill it down to 1 core and the sound stops working properly. My understanding that the appearance of DCS using more then 2 cores is a windows thing, not a DCS change.
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:17 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Strong05 View Post
You can literally go into task manager and disable all but 2 cores and see no degradation in DCS FPS/performance. Kill it down to 1 core and the sound stops working properly. My understanding that the appearance of DCS using more then 2 cores is a windows thing, not a DCS change.
IIRC this has been shown to be a false statement.

Need to dig the forum to show you those tests made by others
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:19 PM   #37
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You can literally go into task manager and disable all but 2 cores and see no degradation in DCS FPS/performance. Kill it down to 1 core and the sound stops working properly.
this is not a valid test.


if you limit the number of cores available, the operating system will just reschedule the work to the available resources. it’s exactly what an operating systems job is, to manage resources!

you test does not prove that dcs does not use more than one core.

what your test proves, is that your one cpu core is not fast enough to do all the things dcs needs to do before the sound buffer runs dry.

thats completely different.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:23 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong05 View Post
You can literally go into task manager and disable all but 2 cores and see no degradation in DCS FPS/performance. Kill it down to 1 core and the sound stops working properly. My understanding that the appearance of DCS using more then 2 cores is a windows thing, not a DCS change.
The principle reason your statement is not accurate, is that DCS is very multithreaded in IO operations. So while the general simulation and audio are not as much, the process of loading assets into memory loads way more than 2 cores. Its very noticeable when panning or rotating the view as you'll see many cores suddenly get loaded up. People have demonstrated real performance differences as a result going above 2 cores.
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:37 PM   #39
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My understanding that the appearance of DCS using more then 2 cores is a windows thing, not a DCS change.
to be clear, a thread is a a list of instructions that get processed. each application has at least one thread, but most have many threads (DCS often uses 50+ threads).

A core is the physical hardware that works on the thread. It's the part that actually does the work.

The operating system will schedule a task (a thread) to a core to execute when it's ready. If more than one thread is ready to run, then both will each be assigned to a free core and they will run simultaneously (at the same time).

When you limit DCS to one core, you are asking the operating system to take all 50+ threads and run them one at a time, on that single core. It's no wonder you have sound stutter problems.

If you limit DCS to two cores, you are asking the operating system to take all 50+ threads and run them two at a time (one thread on each core). Obviously, this is much better.

But better still, is to allow DCS to schedule those 50+ threads onto any available cpu cores. maybe 2, maybe 3, maybe 8... it depends how many threads are ready to run, and how many free cpu cores you have.

The only time DCS uses "2 cores" is on the old Core-Duo chips from 2008... and that only happens to be true because there were only 2 cores in the whole cpu
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Old 07-13-2019, 06:42 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by etherbattx View Post
to be clear, a thread is a a list of instructions that get processed. each application has at least one thread, but most have many threads (DCS often uses 50+ threads).



A core is the physical hardware that works on the thread. It's the part that actually does the work.



The operating system will schedule a task (a thread) to a core to execute when it's ready. If more than one thread is ready to run, then both will each be assigned to a free core and they will run simultaneously (at the same time).



When you limit DCS to one core, you are asking the operating system to take all 50+ threads and run them one at a time, on that single core. It's no wonder you have sound stutter problems.



If you limit DCS to two cores, you are asking the operating system to take all 50+ threads and run them two at a time (one thread on each core). Obviously, this is much better.



But better still, is to allow DCS to schedule those 50+ threads onto any available cpu cores. maybe 2, maybe 3, maybe 8... it depends how many threads are ready to run, and how many free cpu cores you have.



The only time DCS uses "2 cores" is on the old Core-Duo chips from 2008... and that only happens to be true because there were only 2 cores in the whole cpu
Even though there may be many threads, most of the work can still be done on one thread. So at any given time you might not have more than one or two threads that are ready to run. In this situation having more than 2 cores will put you firmly in the lands of diminishing returns.

Writing a graphics engine that efficiently utilizes multiple cores is very difficult. Most games are still not very good at utilizing multi-core processors, even though they have been mainstream for 15 years or so. But it seems like we are finally starting to get somewhere.
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