Let's talk the P-51 in combat in DCS - ED Forums
 


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Old 08-11-2019, 11:46 PM   #1
Aurelius
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Default Let's talk the P-51 in combat in DCS

I have been using the P-51 now for a few weeks in multiplayer (mainly on the Burning Skies server) and I have noticed several things that seem odd:

1 - A Dora on MW50 boost seems to be faster than me and can slowly pull away on the deck. (I am using Military Power at 67 inches) This was true in real life?

2 - When I engage an enemy, especially if on MP, the fuel goes fast and about 65% of the time, during the heat of the chase or fight, my prop stutters because one of the tanks went dry. I quickly switch it over to the next tank but by then, a 2-3 second pause of slower speed and less power has put me in a bad position. If this is the way the real P-51 fought, I can only say it must have been a nightmare to have face a possible empty tank in the heat of battle. Any other option here?

3 - I know the guns aren't noted for their strength like, say, an Anton, .... but I have fired long streams into Doras all over the place and usually nothing happens. DCS modeling error?

4 - Down low, it seems the Dora can out speed me, out turn me, out dive me and out climb me. No advantage for the P51 down low in any arena? (Yes, I know the P-51 is supposed to be super shit up at 35,000 ft but almost no fights in any online servers ever take place at that altitude.)

5 - The P-51 in real combat was often used to launch rockets or dive bomb enemy targets, which to me indicates it could at least take a few hits in return. When I dive bomb anything or a Dora hits me, it seems like about one single shot and the engine goes out, my prop stops and the show is over. I know the Merlin engine is water cooled and what not, but I don't think it was that weak. Am I wrong?


I have been flying the P-51 for the most part as all guides recommend, keep air speed high, don't get into a turn fight, don't try to outclimb Dora or K4 down low, etc... etc... and I am having decent success killing people online but I still have to say, .... I think this fighter is a piece of %$#!. I am aware the P-51 was designed as an escort fighter to accompany bombers at high alt to German home territory and it was used in coordinated teams but it still has glaring flaws. I don't know which American general had overall say in the final design requirements requested by Curtis and NAA but despite all the innovative features for circa 1943, .... I would never in a million years have approved this design. (assuming DCS programmers modeled the P-51 correctly and I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they did an excellent job.)
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:53 AM   #2
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1. Ed tries to match performance to published numbers, not how planes match up.

2. You should be flipping tanks periodically anyway to maintain balance.

3. Iron ass syndrome. Everything in DCS is a bit stout at the direct 6. Try for an angle.

4. Fly tight and look for him to make a mistake, or get a wingman.

5. They don't do as well as others. It's an escort fighter. Wait for the Jug. Mustang losses to ground fire were mind blowing at the start of the Korean war.

You're flying the mid-war generic mustang against the cream of late war german prop fighters. If your having decent success getting online kills then your doing fine. The real power of the US in WW2 wasn't the quality of its war machines, it was numbers they were produced in.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:11 AM   #3
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As above, the mustang we have would have had better fuel, and for most of it’s time, be fighting older generation 109 and 190’s, which had less power.
From an accuracy of aircraft modelling, that’s fine, but for multiplayer, less so.

An easy solution to help balance would be for the server owners to remove availability of MW50, and that has been suggested. I don’t understand why they’ve never done it, unless they happen to fly the Dora and K4 themselves.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:57 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Paganus View Post
..... The real power of the US in WW2 wasn't the quality of its war machines, it was numbers they were produced in.
I am no WW2 historian but the more I have learned over the years about the War, the more I become convinced you are correct. I am not sure we had the better planes, guns, tanks or generals, ... I think we just out manufactured all of Europe and Japan. (I do think the USA also focused on sending veterans with war experience back home to teach newer recruits rather than continuing to use our top officers in continual conflict, as I believe was the case for most of the top German and Jap aces, tank commanders, etc...)
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:03 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mr_sukebe View Post
As above, the mustang we have would have had better fuel, and for most of it’s time, be fighting older generation 109 and 190’s, which had less power.
From an accuracy of aircraft modelling, that’s fine, but for multiplayer, less so.

An easy solution to help balance would be for the server owners to remove availability of MW50, and that has been suggested. I don’t understand why they’ve never done it, unless they happen to fly the Dora and K4 themselves.
Thanks Mr Sukebe. ... My next plane to test in combat will be the Dora. I can't wait. Perhaps I am wrong on this (probably am) but it seems to occupy the high end sweet spot for the DCS warbirds we have available so far. It out runs the P51 (and hence the Spit), so the decision to fight actually rests with the Dora pilot. That engage or disengage poker card is all important on a full real no icons server.

I have to say I had a long laugh at the Dora I was fighting last night that took off with me following it. I engaged MP at 67 inches and evidently, he had MW50 on and I never closed on him. I rode with MP for longer than the recommended 5 min and kept thinking, surely his MW50 has to give out soon. .... Not so. The Dora just kept going. Finally at the 7 min mark, my whole DCS experience suddenly froze with no controls (MP bug?) and I cratered the ground. That is my Dora chasing tale for this week
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:09 AM   #6
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A properly trimmed up and drag managed Mustang CAN catch the dora in the long run.
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Old 08-12-2019, 04:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
It out run the P51 (and hence the Spit), so the decision to fight actually rests with the Dora pilot. That engage or disengage poker card is all important on a full real no icons server.
Dora can only out climb P51. A well trim P51 can catch it. You need to trim P51's rudder all the time. Center the ball and you'll be faster at sea level.

P51 can disengage too. I do so when my speed is about 250 mph, my altitud is 7000 feet and my opponents are getting the advantage. When that happens this is what I do:
  • Steep dive to get 500 mph as fast as possible.
  • Trim the rudder as frequently as you can, to keep that speed .
  • Turn on WEP.
  • When you get 400 mph, close your coolant rad and when the needles is getting the redline open it little by little until the needle hovers the red line.
  • Fly straight. Forget about the tracers or bullets, they don’t have enough energy to get you if you are faster than 375 mph indicated and 2500 feet far away and you are going to get that distance when you have dived. Anything you do will make you lose speed and opponents will get you. If you are flying over the water you’ll see how bullets fall behind you on the water.
  • Check: ball to trim your rudder, your coolant gauge to open or close your rad and fuel tanks to switch them.

Last time I did that, I flew about 20 minutes till I run out of fuel. Try it on single player first.
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Old 08-12-2019, 05:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I am no WW2 historian but the more I have learned over the years about the War, the more I become convinced you are correct. I am not sure we had the better planes, guns, tanks or generals, ... I think we just out manufactured all of Europe and Japan. (I do think the USA also focused on sending veterans with war experience back home to teach newer recruits rather than continuing to use our top officers in continual conflict, as I believe was the case for most of the top German and Jap aces, tank commanders, etc...)
Exactly and this show up also on Tank, I read thar USA general accept as combat doctrine that at least 4 Shermans was needed (in a coordinated attack) to kill a Tiger...

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Old 08-12-2019, 06:06 AM   #9
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Dora with mw50 is hiting 2000hp p-51 1600hp
Is it possible to use WEP in p-51 w/o certain engine dead now ?

Last edited by grafspee; 08-12-2019 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post

5 - The P-51 in real combat was often used to launch rockets or dive bomb enemy targets, which to me indicates it could at least take a few hits in return. When I dive bomb anything or a Dora hits me, it seems like about one single shot and the engine goes out, my prop stops and the show is over. I know the Merlin engine is water cooled and what not, but I don't think it was that weak. Am I wrong?

At present state DM is killing all the fun, lets hope the NDM will fix that
This was common issue for liquid cooled planes. One single bullet, even from infantry could puncture coolant radiator or coolant hoses, preaty much nailing fate of the plane(In DCS this would not be a big issue since, pilot hardly have 200miles or more to get home). That is why p-51 wasnt used much for that kind of missions. P-47 fit in this job much much better

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