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Old 04-16-2018, 02:06 PM   #1
Kilo 4-2
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Default F-15 and BVR question

All I've heard about the F-15 is how great it is at BVR combat. destroys a target before it can react. I'm finding it to be the exact opposite. Ppl tell me I need to get within 8 miles. How is that bvr?

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Old 04-16-2018, 02:15 PM   #2
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The effectiveness of the F15 and BVR is dependent on several factors. I've had kills at 20 miles, and some here have had longer range kills. My own experience shows pretty good effectiveness at around 14 to 16 miles. Staying higher and faster than the enemy is a big factor.

In real life, the F15 can kill at much longer ranges, but that wouldn't be much fun in the sim.
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:16 PM   #3
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People are referring to the area where the AMRAAM has a higher pK, called the NEZ. This is typically around 8-12 miles in a level, head-on engagement. And FWIW, 8 miles is still Beyond Visual Range...you're not going to see a fighter size target at that distance.

I've had reasonable success at ranges upwards of 20 miles in high closure rate engagements against aircraft such as the MiG-25/MiG-31. If you're talking about online multiplayer, there are many other factors such as personal/server lag that can create problems. There are also some issues with AAM guidance algorithms right now that are exploited by most online players.

ED have stated they plan to address these problems when they begin work on the AIM-120s for the F/A-18.
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feefifofum View Post
People are referring to the area where the AMRAAM has a higher pK, called the NEZ. This is typically around 8-12 miles in a level, head-on engagement. And FWIW, 8 miles is still Beyond Visual Range...you're not going to see a fighter size target at that distance.

I've had reasonable success at ranges upwards of 20 miles in high closure rate engagements against aircraft such as the MiG-25/MiG-31. If you're talking about online multiplayer, there are many other factors such as personal/server lag that can create problems. There are also some issues with AAM guidance algorithms right now that are exploited by most online players.

ED have stated they plan to address these problems when they begin work on the AIM-120s for the F/A-18.
Can you outline what are some of the guidance problems that players exploit? From what i've noticed, AMRAAM lofting algorithm is really bad, especially for longer ranges, so it literally drops from 2000kn of velocity to 1000kn when it reaches the 10nm to the target, which gives it a hopeless chance to actually hit the target. What are the exploits that you are referring to since it makes a big disadvantage to the aggressor?
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:38 PM   #5
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Hmmph. I knew it. Better heaters, slammers, and sparrows because of the Hornet. When will the R-77 get attention?!
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:43 PM   #6
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The AIM-9 and AIM-7 already perform accurately per the information available. All other MRMs should benefit from improved guidance algorithms, not just the AIM-120.

Specifically I'm referring to the missile constantly pulling high G lead pursuit vectors unnecessarily at long ranges, leading to bleeding excessive energy. It's a known issue and has been discussed to death and acknowledged by ED.
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:45 PM   #7
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Okay.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feefifofum View Post
The AIM-9
More or less, in terms of fly-out.

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and AIM-7 already perform accurately per the information available.
No? It's the opposite. According to very in-depth information available.

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All other MRMs should benefit from improved guidance algorithms, not just the AIM-120.

Specifically I'm referring to the missile constantly pulling high G lead pursuit vectors unnecessarily at long ranges, leading to bleeding excessive energy. It's a known issue and has been discussed to death and acknowledged by ED.
And the fix is 'easy', but it isn't the only thing that should be addressed for guidance. It would be a nice start though.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feefifofum View Post
People are referring to the area where the AMRAAM has a higher pK, called the NEZ. This is typically around 8-12 miles in a level, head-on engagement. And FWIW, 8 miles is still Beyond Visual Range...you're not going to see a fighter size target at that distance.
No, the NEZ is very specifically a range inside of which you cannot prevent the missile from reaching the aircraft. It doesn't mean you cannot defeat it, it means it will always have the energy to reach the target - typically this range is shorter than Rtr. Given that 120A Rtr should be (and is not in-game) around 13nm at 20000' 0.9M co-alt/speed etc, there's a bit of guidance work to be done, at minimum.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:08 PM   #10
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I never said it couldn't be defeated, just that it has a higher pK...I see I'm your new favorite target though so I'll just refrain from commenting on these types of threads in the future.

I was under the impression the Sparrow was behaving itself per the flyout information IASGATG was able to reconstruct from various sources. Evidently I am misremembering.
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