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Old 12-11-2015, 04:33 AM   #71
mjmorrow
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Originally Posted by Moos_tachu View Post
+1

I really don't understand why people are so much into the F-15E.
Let aside the look and the number of bombs it can carry, there's not a single thing it can do that the F/A-18C cannot.

Plus the Hornet is truly multirole, and carrier capable.
Once ED's Hornet is released, from a gameplay standpoint the Strike Eagle will be pointless.
+1 We are getting the Hornet and two versions of the Tomcat. I am starting to suspect that many more Marines and Navy guys go into flight simulation development than Air Force guys.

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Old 12-11-2015, 04:42 AM   #72
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Hey guys, when you get right down to it, nothing that happened over the beach matters. It what happens when you get back to the boat that counts!

A-6 next please!!!
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Old 12-11-2015, 05:06 AM   #73
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With apparent speculation that EDs F/A-18C Hornet could be released next year.I think Razbam needs to focus on the T-2 Buckeye and A-7 Corsair II next before we get the Strike Eagle.
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Old 12-11-2015, 05:33 AM   #74
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With apparent speculation that EDs F/A-18C Hornet could be released next year.I think Razbam needs to focus on the T-2 Buckeye and A-7 Corsair II next before we get the Strike Eagle.
We have no clue when the F-18 will show...could still be a long way off. But a F-15E would be very welcome! I still think I will be flying the Tomcat before we see the Hornet. I hope I'm wrong but every time we think we will get it...it seems like those time periods come and go...

I hope the F-16 is a 3rd party developed mod because we likely won't see it till 2020 if it's an ED module IMO
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Old 12-11-2015, 06:45 AM   #75
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During the First Persian Gulf War the AIM- 7 was not carried on any F-16s used in combat? Look, I am going to research this point, so if you don't know for sure, just say so. There is no shame in your lacking sufficient information to come to a well reasoned determination as to whether or not the AIM-7 was actually used on F-16's during the Persian Gulf War. I have sources claiming that it was, but I would not simply state that this must have been the case, because I am not confident in the sources I currently have Based on the information I do have, I would not claim to know for sure, one way or the other.
I don't know what you think you're accomplishing with this childish condescending attitude of yours, but it's tiring. You could have done this "research" of yours already in the time spent on repeating the same thing over and over.

For the fifth time in this thread, in the USAF, the Sparrow was only carried by ANG-specific F-16 ADF variants (with CW illuminators added to their older AN/APG-66 units) which were used in the air defense of the continental USA only. The F-15C units provided CAP in DS.

While some foreign operators (e.g. like Taiwan) did use Sparrows on their F-16 variants (In Taiwan's case, this was post 1992) and the later US variants (Block 25+ with the AN/APG-68 ) were probably technically compatible with AIM-7M (or later variants), they were never equipped operationally. From the references on foreign F-16 variants, I presume some updates on the USAF operational units would be required (like e.g. WCS to force HPRF in STT when Sparrow is armed, pylons, etc.) to provide them with this capability.
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Old 12-11-2015, 01:46 PM   #76
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I don't know what you think you're accomplishing with this childish condescending attitude of yours, but it's tiring. You could have done this "research" of yours already in the time spent on repeating the same thing over and over.

For the fifth time in this thread, in the USAF, the Sparrow was only carried by ANG-specific F-16 ADF variants (with CW illuminators added to their older AN/APG-66 units) which were used in the air defense of the continental USA only. The F-15C units provided CAP in DS.

While some foreign operators (e.g. like Taiwan) did use Sparrows on their F-16 variants (In Taiwan's case, this was post 1992) and the later US variants (Block 25+ with the AN/APG-68 ) were probably technically compatible with AIM-7M (or later variants), they were never equipped operationally. From the references on foreign F-16 variants, I presume some updates on the USAF operational units would be required (like e.g. WCS to force HPRF in STT when Sparrow is armed, pylons, etc.) to provide them with this capability.
Dudikoff, First of all, I am not the issue, so whatever you think about me personally, it doesn't belong on the forum where we discuss airplanes and not your opinion of me. Second, it may very well be the case that the AIM-7 was not carried by any F-16's used in the First Gulf War, but simply stating that it was not does not demonstrate that it was not used. Just as I do not rely upon the sources of information I have found suggesting that it was used, I am not simply gong to take someone's word for it. We are closing in on 2016, in the Twenty First Century. A lot of time has past between the First Gulf War and now. Misrepresentations of fact about what happened in the past, even the very recent past, are common enough. Misrepresentations told over and over can take on a life of their own, then be treated an indisputable truth. It may very well be a misrepresentation of fact that the AIM-7 was carried on F-16's during the Gulf War and it may very well be the case that sources indicating that it was used are in error, then again maybe the AIM-7 was used.

I have to research the matter. I am not presently in a position to know one way or the other. I have come to the conclusion that I can not presently represent that the AIM-7 was or was not used on F-16's in the First Gulf War, without doing so in reckless disregard as to whether or not this is the case. I lack sufficient authoritative information and I am not in a position to know such matters, so I cannot currently come to a well reasoned determination on the matter. I will research the matter of the ANG F-16's and whether or not it was the actual case that the AIM-7 was not used on at least some F-16's used int he First Gulf War. Thank you for your assistance. I appreciate your contribution to my inquiry, Dudikoff. MJ
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Old 12-11-2015, 02:10 PM   #77
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One thing I wonder is the fascination or many of us with multi seat complex aircraft. If they model F-15E, F-14, A-6, F-111, etc, You need that second guy to do a lot to properly employ the aircraft. How many of us played games like ArmA 1 to 3 that allow multi seat helicopters and it was/is awful. The lag always gets in the way, you would be trying to shoot at something as the gunner but can't because pilot can't see what you see and vice versa. The AI is terrible as a pilot/gunner,/WSO/GIB.

I'm not looking forward for any multi seat aircraft, hope I'm wrong and you guys can tell me how awesome it is.
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Old 12-11-2015, 02:23 PM   #78
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One thing I wonder is the fascination or many of us with multi seat complex aircraft. If they model F-15E, F-14, A-6, F-111, etc, You need that second guy to do a lot to properly employ the aircraft. How many of us played games like ArmA 1 to 3 that allow multi seat helicopters and it was/is awful. The lag always gets in the way, you would be trying to shoot at something as the gunner but can't because pilot can't see what you see and vice versa. The AI is terrible as a pilot/gunner,/WSO/GIB.
That's certainly something to keep in mind, but in the past simulation games, you could have gotten by by switching manually between positions while leaving the plane flying straight and level or using the autopilot for that when possible (e.g. F-14B on a long range intercept, F-15E or Tornado on a TFR controlled low level approach to target, etc.). I'm convinced something similar can be done in DCS even if the same operations will be more complex and time-consuming than in the older sims (especially with some level of assistance by the AI).

TBH, I enjoyed flying those three twin-seat planes that way 20 years ago more than any other sim since, so I'm convinced I'd manage to enjoy them in DCS as well, with an added bonus option of flying them with a friend.
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Old 12-11-2015, 02:37 PM   #79
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mjmorrow, thing is, whether the AIM-7 used or not in ODS doesn't really change much here since, it is certain that unlike the case with Mirage 2000C, there is no F-16 version that is only SARH capable and wasn't later upgraded to include ARH as well. SARH F-16 and F-15E are contemporary at least. So if we get F-16 module, it will almost certainly be the SPAMRAAM you fear. At most, it can be also AIM-7 compatible and missions can be built without AMRAAMs, but, this would be exact same possibility we already currently have with F-15C anyway.

Even if F-16s with SARH only turns out to be thing in ODS, this would still mean they got upgraded to AIM-120 2 years later anyway.

Early-Mid 80s F-16 is IR only without any BVR capability and I really doubt a development studio will do that if we get a F-16. May be with multiple variants, or, as we already can with F-15C, mission restricted loadouts. But I would be very surprised if anyone publish a F-16 without AMRAAM for DCS.
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Old 12-11-2015, 02:44 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Angelthunder View Post
With apparent speculation that EDs F/A-18C Hornet could be released next year.I think Razbam needs to focus on the T-2 Buckeye and A-7 Corsair II next before we get the Strike Eagle.
Have you seen the videos where the team is testing the T-2 Buckeye? The videos aren't even that new, but the T-2 Buckeye really looks sharp. The T-2 Buckeye ought to be a really cool DCS add-on. I totally agree with you on the F-15E, too.

I have to say though, I am encouraged by the fact that the Razbam team modeled the Mirage 2000 they could get the best information on, rather than modeling the best Mirage 2000. The version they modeled is SARH only in BVR. I am really thankful for that. I intend to sim fly the Mirage a lot and SARH requirements are going to make BVR kills much more challenging than launch, run away, repeat.

I am also going to sim fly against the Mirage some times. If I am using the F-14, I don't want to be spamraamed. I am just not interested in being target practice for droves of players chucking dozens of AIM-120's to and fro with glee and reckless abandon. In a multiplayer environment, featuring out of date Mig-21's, A10c, and SARH only Mirage and F-14 fighters, fielding the AIM-120 is just not going to be that engaging, interesting, or sportsman like, from my point of view. SARH only makes planes, like the Mirage or the F-14, are more of a challenge, for me and for my opponents, when I am sim flying against the Mirage or F-14. SARH only also gives players taking on the unenviable challenge of sim flying planes like the A-10 or the Mig-21 a little more wiggle room. Their allies can defend them from SARH only fighters. If a SARH only fighter wants to down a A10 or a Mig-21 in BVR, that player will have to support that SARH missile. Escort fighters can force the attacking fighter to give up supporting that missile and save the A10 or Mig-21. With the AIM 120, the escorts might kill the attacker, but lose the A10 or Mig-21 all the same.

I would be much more enthusiastic about a possible F-15E, if I knew for sure that the team was going to introduce a SARH only version of the F-15E and keep the AIM-120 off the table. MJ
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