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Sorry :(


-Rudel-

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We don't know that yet...

If someone is developing it, we can be sure it is neither LN or RAZBAM. But so far it's just unrealized pipe-dreams and speculation. Well, at least it used to not be. But for now, no MiG-23.

DCS: MiG-23

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Make it happen, and take my money! :D

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Christ I just spent the last three hours of my life working out what the aircraft is. What is wrong with me.

 

I learned a lot about rivets.

 

 

 

 

Guys come on! This is infant level speculation here! Where's the tinfoil?!

 

Ok I can see we'll have to get serious...

 

At first I thought maybe the rivets were the best venue of research. Looking at the raw normal, it's easy to get the idea that the rivet bulges outward from the fuselage (image, right). This being a normal map, the reality is the opposite: a countersunk rivet (left). At least that's the presumption I'll be working on.

0CUQdVE.png

 

As far as I can tell from some internet sources, such a rivet as pictured left would be called MS20426B. They are, in a word, prolific today. But they don't require dimpling, which is precisely what I suspect we see around the head of the rivet. That should mean (I -think-) it's something like the AN-507 series of rivets, and.. well, no surprise really, that seems to heavily imply the 1940s. What I found quite interesting is that previous contenders like the Wildcat, Hellcat, and Corsair don't have cross/Phillips rivets near the engine, only slotted.

 

To hell with the rivets. I prefer looking at Photoshop! More specifically, this little bastard:

IdiGdNM.png

 

We can tell from the filename (_fuse_dif.psd) that he's working on the fuselage. In his earlier Fishbed work, the tail and elevators were arranged with the fuselage, not with the wings. So I don't think we should epxect to see the wings on the preview icon.

 

You can probably see anything you put your mind to in this preview icon, to be honest. But I have a few ideas! Since 'cowling' and 'fastener' gets mentioned, it's natural to assume we're talking about a prop aircraft. The scroll bars tell us approximately where the view is (the Photoshop rulers would also help, but we don't know the image size). It's looking top left, right about here:

 

FhVfG5k.png

 

His layers are suffixed R L B; Right, Left and (I assume) Bottom. R is active, and since we're so high on the image itself, we're looking at the rivets upside down. I think we're looking at rivets that are on the engine cowling itself, pretty far down on the actual aircraft.

 

Unable to find any US aircraft of the era with rivets like that, and knowing LN/Magnitude's focus on the Pacific, I turned to the Japanese aircraft.

 

Yeah I think you see the rivets we're talking about. My guess is Rudel is working on them and has not yet added the parallell row of rivets.

 

I bet it turns out everyone knew this already and this was all for naught.

Or that I'm incredibly mistaken. At this point whatever.

 

 


Edited by scaflight
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Christ I just spent the last three hours of my life working out what the aircraft is. What is wrong with me.

 

I learned a lot about rivets.

 

 

 

 

Guys come on! This is infant level speculation here! Where's the tinfoil?!

 

Ok I can see we'll have to get serious...

 

At first I thought maybe the rivets were the best venue of research. Looking at the raw normal, it's easy to get the idea that the rivet bulges outward from the fuselage (image, right). This being a normal map, the reality is the opposite: a countersunk rivet (left). At least that's the presumption I'll be working on.

0CUQdVE.png

 

As far as I can tell from some internet sources, such a rivet as pictured left would be called MS20426B. They are, in a word, prolific today. But they don't require dimpling, which is precisely what I suspect we see around the head of the rivet. That should mean (I -think-) it's something like the AN-507 series of rivets, and.. well, no surprise really, that seems to heavily imply the 1940s. What I found quite interesting is that previous contenders like the Wildcat, Hellcat, and Corsair don't have cross/Phillips rivets near the engine, only slotted.

 

To hell with the rivets. I prefer looking at Photoshop! More specifically, this little bastard:

IdiGdNM.png

 

We can tell from the filename (_fuse_dif.psd) that he's working on the fuselage. In his earlier Fishbed work, the tail and elevators were arranged with the fuselage, not with the wings. So I don't think we should epxect to see the wings on the preview icon.

 

You can probably see anything you put your mind to in this preview icon, to be honest. But I have a few ideas! Since 'cowling' and 'fastener' gets mentioned, it's natural to assume we're talking about a prop aircraft. The scroll bars tell us approximately where the view is (the Photoshop rulers would also help, but we don't know the image size). It's looking top left, right about here:

 

FhVfG5k.png

 

His layers are suffixed R L B; Right, Left and (I assume) Bottom. R is active, and since we're so high on the image itself, we're looking at the rivets upside down. I think we're looking at rivets that are on the engine cowling itself, pretty far down on the actual aircraft.

 

Unable to find any US aircraft of the era with rivets like that, and knowing LN/Magnitude's focus on the Pacific, I turned to the Japanese aircraft.

 

Yeah I think you see the rivets we're talking about. My guess is Rudel is working on them and has not yet added the parallell row of rivets.

 

I bet it turns out everyone knew this already and this was all for naught.

Or that I'm incredibly mistaken. At this point whatever.

 

 

LOL! Man, you are hardcore! Nice! :thumbup:

MSI MAG Z790 Carbon, i9-13900k, NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL40 6000mhz RAM, MSI RTX4090, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 4x 2TB Samsung 980 Pro NVMe, 1x 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD, Win 11 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, Varjo Aero, Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro2 Full Tower Case, Seasonic GX-1200 ATX3 PSU, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2, K-51 Helicopter Collective Control

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Christ I just spent the last three hours of my life working out what the aircraft is. What is wrong with me.

 

I learned a lot about rivets.

Before you guys get too excited about Zeros, I'd check out page 8 of the MiG-23 thread to keep this investigation on the right track: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=192485&page=8

 

specifically, make sure you check out this link: https://michaelcarterii.artstation.com/projects/6DwNW

 

Note that the angled bracket on the right side of the tail gear assembly looks like a connector for a diagonal strut to the horizontal stabilizer (although in that case it probably should have a hole instead of a slot cut out of it).

 

If those teasers are the same as this one, then we are looking for a tail dragger with Goodyear Flight Special 606C61-6 tires, diagonal struts/cables below the tail, able to be equipped with an Aviation Products 6131 tailwheel (usually an aftermarket part), a cowl, and visible fasteners on the exterior.

 

The Aviat Husky I posted on the other page of this thread wasn't just a joke. It meets all of those criteria.

 

(That said, Rudel's avatar is from The Wind Rises, so a Zero from M3/Leatherneck could be somewhere in our future!)


Edited by VincentLaw

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Before you guys get too excited about Zeros, I'd check out page 8 of the MiG-23 thread to keep this investigation on the right track: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=192485&page=8

 

specifically, make sure you check out this link: https://michaelcarterii.artstation.com/projects/6DwNW

 

Note that the angled bracket on the right side of the tail gear assembly looks like a connector for a diagonal strut to the horizontal stabilizer (although in that case it probably should have a hole instead of a slot cut out of it).

 

If those teasers are the same as this one, then we are looking for a tail dragger with Goodyear Flight Special 606C61-6 tires, diagonal struts/cables below the tail, able to be equipped with an Aviation Products 6131 tailwheel (usually an aftermarket part), a cowl, and visible fasteners on the exterior.

 

The Aviat Husky I posted on the other page of this thread wasn't just a joke. It meets all of those criteria.

 

(That said, Rudel's avatar is from The Wind Rises, so a Zero from M3/Leatherneck could be somewhere in our future!)

 

Considering the Phillips head on the rivets and other inconsistencies with my own theory, I think an Aviat Husky can be a reasonable guess. Not only that... As I studied the preview icon yesterday, I was looking for the long dark stretches where the wings will fit. The icon just didn't make sense to me, unless the aircraft was texture-split at the top (which isn't the case, since Right side is so near the top). Or, unless the aircraft has high-mounted wings...

 

hgx1xVs.png

 

I'm a lot less certain of the Zero now, especially since I can't get good closeups of the rivets in question. But I also can't find a way to match the rivets with the Husky. Even allowing for rivets yet to be placed, we can see clearly the sheet (as it would appear on a right-side up aircraft, facing right) that is fastened:

 

5LFTmHv.png

 

.. and I don't see that on the Husky.

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hah, amazing work on the rivet sleuthing!

 

I am WAY more inclined to think it might be an A6M5 over that Husky. Why would they ever spend the time to create a DCS-level sim of a glorified piper cub? It will make them literally zero dollars, probably negative dollars.

 

However, a late period A6M5 would be pretty compelling! And would sell some!

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about the MiG-21! She's due for an overhaul, I'm sure most will appreciate!

 

 

An overhaul for the MIG-21?

 

Are there any details? :detective:


Edited by Crash

System Specs: AMD Ryzen 5 3600, RX 6900 XT, 64GB RAM // Tobsen CM Kollektiv, VPC CM3 Throttle, VPC WarBRD Rudder Pedals, VPC T-50 CM2 + WarBRD Base  VR: HP Reverb G2

Helis: UH-1H / KA-50 3 / Mi-8 / Mi-24P / SA-342 / AH-64D  Jets: F-5E / F-14A/B / F/A-18C / MC-2000 / A-10C II / AV-8B / AJS 37 / MIG-21bis  / F-16C / F-15E / F-4E (soon)  WWII: Spitfire / WWII Assets Pack

Tech.: Combined Arms / NS430 / Supercarrier   Maps:  Nevada / Persian Gulf / Normandie / Syria / South Atlantic  Waiting for:  BO-105 / OH 58D / CH-47 Chinook / G.91R / Tornado IDS / A-7E Corsair II

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Will it be something like a Mig-21 2.0?

Or more like a bit of finetuning.

System Specs: AMD Ryzen 5 3600, RX 6900 XT, 64GB RAM // Tobsen CM Kollektiv, VPC CM3 Throttle, VPC WarBRD Rudder Pedals, VPC T-50 CM2 + WarBRD Base  VR: HP Reverb G2

Helis: UH-1H / KA-50 3 / Mi-8 / Mi-24P / SA-342 / AH-64D  Jets: F-5E / F-14A/B / F/A-18C / MC-2000 / A-10C II / AV-8B / AJS 37 / MIG-21bis  / F-16C / F-15E / F-4E (soon)  WWII: Spitfire / WWII Assets Pack

Tech.: Combined Arms / NS430 / Supercarrier   Maps:  Nevada / Persian Gulf / Normandie / Syria / South Atlantic  Waiting for:  BO-105 / OH 58D / CH-47 Chinook / G.91R / Tornado IDS / A-7E Corsair II

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-- Mig-21Bis (V2.0 in progress) (2017) (EFM/ASM)

- New & improved sounds

- Improved radar screen visual representation

- Re-Introduction red cockpit floodlights

- Performance improvements

- Major improvements exterior 3d model accuracy

- New pilot model

- Improved artwork & textures

- Default cockpit livery variations

- New default liveries

- Re-introduction of tactical numbering

 

Found it myself. Thanks Silver Dragon.

System Specs: AMD Ryzen 5 3600, RX 6900 XT, 64GB RAM // Tobsen CM Kollektiv, VPC CM3 Throttle, VPC WarBRD Rudder Pedals, VPC T-50 CM2 + WarBRD Base  VR: HP Reverb G2

Helis: UH-1H / KA-50 3 / Mi-8 / Mi-24P / SA-342 / AH-64D  Jets: F-5E / F-14A/B / F/A-18C / MC-2000 / A-10C II / AV-8B / AJS 37 / MIG-21bis  / F-16C / F-15E / F-4E (soon)  WWII: Spitfire / WWII Assets Pack

Tech.: Combined Arms / NS430 / Supercarrier   Maps:  Nevada / Persian Gulf / Normandie / Syria / South Atlantic  Waiting for:  BO-105 / OH 58D / CH-47 Chinook / G.91R / Tornado IDS / A-7E Corsair II

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-- Mig-21Bis (V2.0 in progress) (2017) (EFM/ASM)

- New & improved sounds

- Improved radar screen visual representation

- Re-Introduction red cockpit floodlights

- Performance improvements

- Major improvements exterior 3d model accuracy

- New pilot model

- Improved artwork & textures

- Default cockpit livery variations

- New default liveries

- Re-introduction of tactical numbering

 

Found it myself. Thanks Silver Dragon.

 

this in itself is great news! :thumbup:

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this in itself is great news! :thumbup:

Depends on the perspective. It's great to get updates but frankly speaking at some point of time you have to say the project is done and move on with the new work. Otherwise the dev team will stuck in a constant maintenance loop. The resources are never unlimited and if they're working on improvements for already released module they are not working on the new airplane.

 

Don't get me wrong, MiG-21 is one of my most favorite modules in DCS :thumbup:

F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all

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Mig-21 isn't finished yet....

 

All modules should be completed to ED like standard and then given maintenance to be playable throughout all DCS versions.

 

I really don't want ED or devs to give attitude that half finished module and on to the next one is a good business model.

 

I have confidence in Magnitude to fix the missing Mig features and fix longstanding bugs such as disappearing landing gear.

 

As this is our squadrons main used aircraft, im pretty happy to see it's getting more TLC to properly finish the module.

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Depends on the perspective. It's great to get updates but frankly speaking at some point of time you have to say the project is done and move on with the new work. Otherwise the dev team will stuck in a constant maintenance loop. The resources are never unlimited and if they're working on improvements for already released module they are not working on the new airplane.

 

Don't get me wrong, MiG-21 is one of my most favorite modules in DCS :thumbup:

 

That is such an old/wrong perspective.

 

Mig21 still sales! If they stop patching it and improving it the Module within DCS ecosystem gets obsolete... I'd say fast. The sales will start diminishing and your "prophecy" will self fulfill.

 

In today's gaming industry you keep a game alive and earn money of it as much as possible. DCS is not Call of Duty to actually be better to drop every year the previous version but keep the franchise. It just works by keeping the franchise and the "game version" as much as possible and when you change it migrate everybody to the new one as cheaply as possible so you can still earn money of all modules.

 

Mig21 already is not a star anymore. It was. Now feels dated and buggy. I stopped flying it because of delays in fixing small or big bugs (imho because the team got halved and Magnitude 3 is working on next module).

 

That constant maintenance loop is what brings money for M3 (you think they eat from P38 or whatever plane they work on now? or interest on the money earned and put into a bank?) while developing the next module and also !!! asures good chances of success for the next module (I for example am put off in buying blindly their next one because I feel Mig21 was abandoned too much time and what happens now with 21 will happen with next one too... like it happens with all other modules.

 

True that my trust in 3rd parties for DCS has taken a dent lately...


Edited by zaelu

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The MiG21bis has seen better times.

 

The biggest issues are the unrealistic flameouts. There is no way that a MiG21 will flame out that easily.

 

It also feels less maneuverable then it should. Real MiG21 are able to perform hammerheads and have a reputation for being very agile. Also, ground handling. This fighter should be able to take off from a mud pit, but in DCS the gear breaks easily and you'll get stuck on a small patch of grass...

 

For me the 1.5.4 patch had a great DCS MiG21bis. It was fun to fly and felt very sharp. Competitive. Then a couple of overcorrections, a patch here and there, and here we are. I still hope that Magnitude 3 will reverse the FM a bit, it was great but now it is so-so.


Edited by Schmidtfire
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I think FM is as accurate as it can be for this moment in this sim. After seeing experienced f5 pilots struggle overshoting me in scissors and the stability of the airframe at high speed it really justifies about all aspects of aerodynamics that this airframe has to offer and correspods to f5 FM in a right way. And I heard from people that had flown with this thing that just now it got to the point where it feels like mig21. I think the blame goes on overcontroling this bird being a pilot error. Sorry for extending offtopic.



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-- Mig-21Bis (V2.0 in progress) (2017) (EFM/ASM)

- New & improved sounds

- Improved radar screen visual representation

- Re-Introduction red cockpit floodlights

- Performance improvements

- Major improvements exterior 3d model accuracy

- New pilot model

- Improved artwork & textures

- Default cockpit livery variations

- New default liveries

- Re-introduction of tactical numbering

 

Found it myself. Thanks Silver Dragon.

 

That is actually depressing for me. These are artwork improvements only. Nothing about avionics issues.

 

The MiG21bis has seen better times.

 

The biggest issues are the unrealistic flameouts. There is no way that a MiG21 will flame out that easily.

 

It also feels less maneuverable then it should. Real MiG21 are able to perform hammerheads and have a reputation for being very agile. Also, ground handling. This fighter should be able to take off from a mud pit, but in DCS the gear breaks easily and you'll get stuck on a small patch of grass...

 

For me the 1.5.4 patch had a great DCS MiG21bis. It was fun to fly and felt very sharp. Competitive. Then a couple of overcorrections, a patch here and there, and here we are. I still hope that Magnitude 3 will reverse the FM a bit, it was great but now it is so-so.

 

Sorry mate but you're just throwing your subjective impressions based on your own preferences. You need to improve your pilot skills that's all.

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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