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Magnitude MiG-23?


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I would prefer an earlier variant, a MiG-23MLD would be a bit too far off the original aircraft. I'm torn between the MiG-23M and the MiG-23ML. The MiG-23MLD just seems like a bit of a stretch, a wannabe MiG-29 if you will.

 

The MiG-23M was the truly mass produced variant. It had the more capable "High-Lark" radar, the TP-23 IRST system, and R-23R/T missile. Which meant it could sneak and then "stealth fire", having an effective range little inside of 10km for that. And despite the initially somewhat lackluster performance in BFM, the variable geometry wings somewhat made up for it. So it really wasn't that bad, and it fits in nicely with the F-4, Mirage 3, and F-14A that we will be getting. .....

I'd love to see the 23 in the sim as well, especially (in my case) the MLA. However, the way i see it, it will be a orphan right now. Without Star Fighters, F1s or Phantoms to contend with it will the middle child in the family. Too advanced for the likes of MiG21 and F-5 and too much behind the 4th gen (F-14, 15, 18 or the MiG-29 Su-27, M2000).

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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I'd love to see the 23 in the sim as well, especially (in my case) the MLA. However, the way i see it, it will be a orphan right now. Without Star Fighters, F1s or Phantoms to contend with it will the middle child in the family. Too advanced for the likes of MiG21 and F-5 and too much behind the 4th gen (F-14, 15, 18 or the MiG-29 Su-27, M2000).

 

There is a Phantom in the works right now from Belsimtek. So if Magnitude does make a Mig-23 it would have at least 1 good adversary (sort of like the F-86 and the Mig-15). :smilewink:

Modules:

Owned:

P-51D, F/A-18C, AJS-37, NTTR, F-5E, M-2000C, Bf 109, Fw 190 D-9, F-86F, Mig-15Bis, A-10C, Combined Arms, Mi-8Mtv2, UH-1H, Black Shark 2, Mig-21Bis, FC3, F-14A/B, Mig-19, Spitfire, JF-17, Persian Gulf

 

Would Like to See:

Mig-29K, Su-24, Mig-25, J-8II, J-10 , Tornado

 

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Would be prefer the MLD because also the Airframe got upgraded from the M Version also and only the real Production MLD's get Airframe revisiting...

What is unbelievable bad in the early Soviet Fighters is the RWR, it is much lacking behind western fighters, first the MLD get competitive electronic Suit with SPO 15 Dogfight modus in the Radar and true BVR Range..

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

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9./JG27

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There is a Phantom in the works right now from Belsimtek. So if Magnitude does make a Mig-23 it would have at least 1 good adversary (sort of like the F-86 and the Mig-15). :smilewink:

 

What Phantom are they going for? E?

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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What is unbelievable bad in the early Soviet Fighters is the RWR, it is much lacking behind western fighters, first the MLD get competitive electronic Suit with SPO 15 Dogfight modus in the Radar and true BVR Range..

 

A threat is a threat. And when you have a inteligence of the enemy aircrafts types on the area, a GCI doesn't need much to give educated guess what kind threat you are having against you. GCI is anyways telling you the airdome around you what there is happening. And as you don't fly in solo, you communicate with rest of the flight to do the checkins of more accurate directions, altitudes and ranges etc (you handle the RWR by flying as well).

 

A enemy that ain't at their launch range, nor launched toward you, ain't a really a threat, you need to focus for the task and threat you are having like incoming missile or a fighter over a SAM at distance.

 

You have your kneeboard of known SAM sites and other intelligence so you know the basic threat locations just by looking down and comparing it to RWR. As well listening what GCI is telling you is a lot. And then you have eyes and whole flight.

 

At first glance the western RWR looks far more effective as you can see 360 and get a symbol for threat type, but it really isn't much more effective in high stress situations where is happening a lot around you and you need to focus for main threats. And when you have been merged, it doesn't really matter what the RWR is telling you as you need to visually acquire the target and keep it so. And at that point you don't need to know what is far and is the main threat 8'clock or 7'clock, you need to know is it on your left or right side of the tail as quickly as possible and visualize your, as the threat flight paths.

 

At longer ranges and front of you, you have as well your radar to draw the picture, so you are using very basic methods with simple tools that becomes very effective and fast way to create total picture of what is happening as addition to what GCI and rest of the flight is telling you.

 

The only thing that I have never got, is like in cases of Su-27S, that why in the heck the RWR is at bottom right part of the front panel, in deepest shadow? It is like the last place where I would place it, as head and eyes down spent time just makes it odd.

There is a reason (not that you didn't have any other position where to place it) but I haven't just found it at all. Like in some Mi-24 you have the SPO-15 on top of the cockpit clearly as a quick additional upgrade as there wasn't any other place to put it.

 

I would like to know what kind RWR the PAK-FA has or Su-35M or Su-35MKI. Likely something on the MFCD. At least SPO-15 ain't used anymore.

 

 

It is easy to see soviet RWR lacking a lot when flying totally solo, bad/no GCI or lacking communications between flight members to work together.

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18 months isn't quick to you?

 

MiG-21 took 4 years, and the F-18 has been going for god knows how long.

 

I said "at least".

 

Also, Mig-21 did not take 4 years. I suggest you go read Cobra's posts on the matter, from what I remember, after various issues and a restart under the LN banner, it was more like 2.

 

Either way, this thread is now moot as the last official communication was that M3/LN are not doing a MiG-23 at this moment.


Edited by Buzzles
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Yeah, 2 years thanks to the direct experience of the first try…

 

My speculation: If they have to finish the MiG-21 corrections (ASP, SPO, …), it would require heavy code overhaul. But since these components would share the same code architecture for better module portability and maintenance, they have to be validated for the next Su-17M :P module before they are released for the MiG-21 too. That's maybe why major MiG-21 updates are still awaited.

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МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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Would be prefer the MLD because also the Airframe got upgraded from the M Version also and only the real Production MLD's get Airframe revisiting...

What is unbelievable bad in the early Soviet Fighters is the RWR, it is much lacking behind western fighters, first the MLD get competitive electronic Suit with SPO 15 Dogfight modus in the Radar and true BVR Range..

The MiG-23MLD would be in a place too advanced for the F-4E and Mirage 3, but not quite good enough to equal FC3 or the Mirage 2000C. Like I said, it would be a stretch. No MiG-23MLDs we're even built, it was an upgrade kit designed to last until replacement by the MiG-29.

 

I would prefer an aircraft that was actually produced to an upgrade kit, in DCS at least. It just feels much more proper. So why not the MiG-23ML/MLA (the designation MLA was given to the last 1100 aircraft produced, though with improvements, of the ML bunch), instead of the MiG-23MLD? My preferred zone of variants would be the MiG-23M (the truly mass produced variant), ML (a redesign of the iconic M, during the second wave of mass production), or MLA (the latest, and most capable, produced variant). But that's just my opinion.

 

I really don't see the RWR as a major setback. It tells you from what direction a radar is pinging you, if the radar is on ground level or airborne, the speed of the pings (indicates TWS lock), and when you are being hard-locked/painted. An informed operator can get even more information out of it.

 

And as always, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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MLD would be weird, it would be too late and too advanced vs other 3rd gens, but still wouldn't really be too a great competitor to 4th gens.

 

Since the F-4E will be a late one though, maybe MiG-23MLD would work too. I still think MLA would be a happy medium, if it ever got counter measure capabilities.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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What Phantom are they going for? E?

 

Yup. :smilewink: The F-4E and the Mi-24P. :D Both would do well with a Mig-23 module. One to attack and one to perform ground assault tasks while the Mig protects it. :D

Modules:

Owned:

P-51D, F/A-18C, AJS-37, NTTR, F-5E, M-2000C, Bf 109, Fw 190 D-9, F-86F, Mig-15Bis, A-10C, Combined Arms, Mi-8Mtv2, UH-1H, Black Shark 2, Mig-21Bis, FC3, F-14A/B, Mig-19, Spitfire, JF-17, Persian Gulf

 

Would Like to See:

Mig-29K, Su-24, Mig-25, J-8II, J-10 , Tornado

 

__________________

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My girl friend accused me of saying "mig23 mig23" while we were having sex...Just kidding I don't have a girlfirned.

 

I love Mig21bis flying fast supersonic missile attacks on low flying Tigers II and then lighting the emergency burner and climbing into the sun. I would love to do this style of fighting in the Flogger.

 

Check out this video of the Flogger acceleration through Mach 2 range! Is this real?!?

 

2min 22 secs into video. Surely that can't be how quickly it accelerated at that high speed

 

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I really don't see the RWR as a major setback. It tells you from what direction a radar is pinging you, if the radar is on ground level or airborne, the speed of the pings (indicates TWS lock), and when you are being hard-locked/painted. An informed operator can get even more information out of it.

 

And as always, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

SPO-10 you can estimated the Thread if it Ground or Airborne Radar by wiggle the Wings in the MIG-21 no Joke... how it works is a other Story..

There is no indication of the Signal Strength to estimate the Distance, 4 Lamps give only rough course of you Threat 90 Degrees cover in witch be can either Ground or Airborne Target..

When you got looked there is no way to tell from where because all 4 lamps now constant flashing.. And overall a bad design compared to the Western Fighter as Man Machine interface, the F-5 RWR is there light Years ahead...

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

9./JG27

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Check out this video of the Flogger acceleration through Mach 2 range! Is this real?!?

 

2min 22 secs into video. Surely that can't be how quickly it accelerated at that high speed

 

 

Looks like a test of the Mach meter instrument and not footage of it in-flight.

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The MiG-23MLD would be in a place too advanced for the F-4E and Mirage 3, but not quite good enough to equal FC3 or the Mirage 2000C. Like I said, it would be a stretch. No MiG-23MLDs we're even built, it was an upgrade kit designed to last until replacement by the MiG-29.

 

I would prefer an aircraft that was actually produced to an upgrade kit, in DCS at least. It just feels much more proper. So why not the MiG-23ML/MLA (the designation MLA was given to the last 1100 aircraft produced, though with improvements, of the ML bunch), instead of the MiG-23MLD? My preferred zone of variants would be the MiG-23M (the truly mass produced variant), ML (a redesign of the iconic M, during the second wave of mass production), or MLA (the latest, and most capable, produced variant). But that's just my opinion.

 

I really don't see the RWR as a major setback. It tells you from what direction a radar is pinging you, if the radar is on ground level or airborne, the speed of the pings (indicates TWS lock), and when you are being hard-locked/painted. An informed operator can get even more information out of it.

 

And as always, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Sure for the Mirage III, but Mirage IIIC (the one being build by Razbam) rival should be the 21 the earlier ones, F13, PF... and the 19, not the 23. Regarding the Phantom E, remember they're building a very late Phantom, a beast of the 80's, so fully compatible with a 23MLD.

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When you got looked there is no way to tell from where because all 4 lamps now constant flashing.. And overall a bad design compared to the Western Fighter as Man Machine interface, the F-5 RWR is there light Years ahead...

 

The bad design is more likely to come from Leatherneck. The 4 lamps circuits are totally independent and there is no reason they are lit in the same time even by a radar lock. It has been documented that it happens few kilometers from ground radars, but their output power is significantly higher than airborne radars…

Other weaknesses: all radars triggers the modeled SPO within 80km range, even if it is a zaslon or the F-86F's primitive tiny radar. Cobra responded that it's too hard to take every radar's performances into account, but at this time he was probably preparing his luggage for Heatblur, and hidden that they succeeded to do it for the AJS… very frustrating for me :mad:

They modeled two regimes for their SPO: 1 blink per second for RWS, 2 for TWS, with constant cycle ratio. I've made a small script to notice that it can vary dramatically depending of the radar source's position and mode of scanning.

So in my opinion, the SPO-10 by Leatherneck is the most gameplay sensitive feature that needs attention, and I hope that the next module will not inherit its flagrant flaws. Like asla36 said, a good pilot can deduce many information from it, but in the game it is just impossible yet. Too bad, most of us don't care at all.


Edited by Bogey Jammer
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I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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I highly doubt that Magnitude 3 will be making a Mig-23,since there still developing bug fixes for the Mig-21Bis and by the way they haven't hardly communicated in these forums since their split from Heatblur Simulations.If anything,it'll most likely be them to develop it,after they've finished with the Tomcat.

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I highly doubt that Magnitude 3 will be making a Mig-23,since there still developing bug fixes for the Mig-21Bis and by the way they haven't hardly communicated in these forums since their split from Heatblur Simulations.If anything,it'll most likely be them to develop it,after they've finished with the Tomcat.

 

Maybe not, but they've confirmed they have a module that is nearing the end of its work. You make it sound like they've been doing nothing.

 

Something is coming.

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Correct, an E.

 

I wish one day we can have a NAVY Phantom as well.... a J maybe....

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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And that something is not the Mig-23, as per their response on FB.

 

Sad but true. As much as I would love a Mig-23 they said they're not working on it.

 

On the other hand I remember watching a video from ED that said they can produce a module for a WW2 bird a lot faster than they can a jet so maybe they're making one of those instead.

Modules:

Owned:

P-51D, F/A-18C, AJS-37, NTTR, F-5E, M-2000C, Bf 109, Fw 190 D-9, F-86F, Mig-15Bis, A-10C, Combined Arms, Mi-8Mtv2, UH-1H, Black Shark 2, Mig-21Bis, FC3, F-14A/B, Mig-19, Spitfire, JF-17, Persian Gulf

 

Would Like to See:

Mig-29K, Su-24, Mig-25, J-8II, J-10 , Tornado

 

__________________

Specifications:

Windows 10 64Bit, i7-7700K 4.2Ghz, GTX 1080, 16Gb RAM, T.flight Stick X

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Sad but true. As much as I would love a Mig-23 they said they're not working on it.

 

On the other hand I remember watching a video from ED that said they can produce a module for a WW2 bird a lot faster than they can a jet so maybe they're making one of those instead.

Which co-insides with the P-38 nose-cone/wing imagery on their site...

DCS: MiG-23

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Which co-insides with the P-38 nose-cone/wing imagery on their site...

 

Could be. :D I'm very intrigued to see what they've come up with. :smilewink: When did they say they would inform us on what they've been up to? A few months I think?

Modules:

Owned:

P-51D, F/A-18C, AJS-37, NTTR, F-5E, M-2000C, Bf 109, Fw 190 D-9, F-86F, Mig-15Bis, A-10C, Combined Arms, Mi-8Mtv2, UH-1H, Black Shark 2, Mig-21Bis, FC3, F-14A/B, Mig-19, Spitfire, JF-17, Persian Gulf

 

Would Like to See:

Mig-29K, Su-24, Mig-25, J-8II, J-10 , Tornado

 

__________________

Specifications:

Windows 10 64Bit, i7-7700K 4.2Ghz, GTX 1080, 16Gb RAM, T.flight Stick X

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