[REPORTED]MIG 29S has huge bounce on landing

Of course it should and it does bounce. I don't see the problem?

Yes, but the force of the bounce and nose strut strenght is in question. If the track looks good to others/SME/devs I will accept it as is.

Since I doubt that there are any videos or pireps about MiG-29 nose gear first touchdowns, how do you expect anyone to find out if this is correct?

Again, it doesn't look like a bug to me.

Since I doubt that there are any videos or pireps about MiG-29 nose gear first touchdowns, how do you expect anyone to find out if this is correct?

Same as with model building by hard data on nose strut max force and strenght limits.

On many aircraft the landing gear can take more stress than the rest of the structure. It's not uncommon that e.g. the wing attachment fails while the gear struts stay intact.

Just look at the Su-7 skid/mud tests.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yaNylQ5a9o

All landing techniqe aside...

I flew 560kph directly into a hilltop. Making sure to hit the nosegear only. The MIG29 bounces up and I gain approx 200m elevation. Nosegear and tire is intact. No damage...

If this is, indeed, the case, then there is an issue. Can you supply a track? I've tried replicating as you've described and have not been successful. On a sloping hill, all wheels hit and the aircraft bounces. At the ridgeline of a steep slope, the nosewheel snaps off and the aircraft bounces when the mains hit.

I am suspecting this is a factor of server performance, and I think a recent patch has made it worse.

I was one of the people saying "Well it's fine, just land it nose-high and you don't get this problem." earlier in either this thread or another thread.

But now? Gently lowering the nose onto the runway can cause it to rocket the whole aircraft up off the runway. Sometimes touchdowns at ~260kph with less than a few m/s of fall speed result in the aircraft trampolining into the sky. The curious part? The gears are perfectly fine after that. No damage whatsoever despite the fact they can apparently jump several hundred meters off a concrete runway. You can do this multiple times and the tires and gears don't break a sweat.

I've only had this problem on a server with a very taxing mission than in Single Player or Multiplayer on a powerful server cluster.

EDIT: Screenshots to follow in next post.

I watched the replay of the event where this occurred, and tried replicating it in single player.

For the life of me, I can't get it to happen again in Single player OR Multiplayer. Same approach, same speed, same airport, same wind conditions. The only difference is the speed and power of the host machine (The following occurs on a friend's very underpowered server.)

Here's the approach in screenshot format: https://imgur.com/a/RnHZWmP

https://i.imgur.com/u3tl3VF.png

Good approach, a little fast but I'm flying into the wind. So it's closer to 260/280.

https://i.imgur.com/I0hDfSU.png

Gently lower it onto the runway, going good, good AoA.

https://i.imgur.com/8AJnjGq.png

Touchdown, now to lower the nosewheel down.

https://i.imgur.com/NdFgWOQ.png

WHOOSH! Right into space. The second the nosewheel touched down, my entire plane deflected like it was in a Cobra. I would like to note, that smoke isn't my tires touching the pavement; that is the plane deflecting so hard that it tailstruck.

https://i.imgur.com/MDKe4q9.png

Me, clearly confused, decide to try that one more time.

So , lowering the plane back onto its hind gears.

https://i.imgur.com/rDbFeT7.png

Good touchdown, nose high, gently lower the nose after slowing down some.

https://i.imgur.com/rXbv13T.png

BOING! Right back off into space as the nosewheel touches asphalt.

https://i.imgur.com/8ZgsHYD.png

So my friend, eager to make it look easy, gives it a try.

He's on a good approach for a landing as well, a better one than I was in.

https://i.imgur.com/8vifQaM.png

Multiplayer desync makes it seem like he's floating, but he just touched his two hind gears down, and is now lowering the nosegear.

https://i.imgur.com/tyQLvWe.png

Nosegear touches down-

https://i.imgur.com/llrbRr2.png

Right back into space again. He too deflects so hard that he tailstrikes. Zero damage to his gears but one of his engines stops afterwards

I spent an hour puzzling what happened after that, and I couldn't figure it out. I tried the same exact approaches at the same airports in another multiplayer server (TTI). None of them had these results. All of them, at the same speeds, same aircraft weight, same loadout, same wind, same airports, landed perfectly at these speeds.

I was talking with another friend, and the possibility that this was caused by server desync and framerate came up. The server that this happened on was being hammered with a really intensive mission, and it wasn't exactly a powerful machine to begin with. Server FPS was reported to be about in the 10-17fps range. The server actually crashed instead of going down.

Any thoughts?

I can try to convert this to another format if someone wants to watch it live. The replay is extremely huge, and has my multiplayer details included, so I'm not inclined to share it publicly. I do have a tacview of the event, as well.

The video is working. Please, fix these ridiculous physics lol!

You trying to land a Mig at 250 knots? Something's not working.....:megalol:

Way too fast and too high sink rate. Come in around 300kmh and just below that as you flare and touch down about 280kmh

This is not about physics but about modelling damage. Assuming a much too stable gear and structure, the physics shown in the video look quite realistic to me concerning the bouncing. Of course a smoking wreck should be the result of such an inappropriate touch down.

Want to read more into it?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=253632

This is about damage model.... You can do ridiculous things with the MiG-29 landing gear and it will not break or bend or anything.

Don't know if the MiG-29 even got a new damage model after the external model update.... did it even get finished ?

Here is a track....

There is no damage model for the gear what so ever, you either crash hard enough to explode or you bounce in a ridiculous way .....

MiG-29.trk

Yes, the bounce is because of that, but a slam with such a gear should collapse the main gear, no ?

Gear acts as if it is a rigid body.

Thank you so much guys for being so patient, and helpful, and providing so many videos, and tracks and resources! This is amazing, and very helpful to most of us ignorant beginners! You right, guys - if the gear broke, then I would crash, but because the gear was way too strong, stronger than expected, it absorbed all the extreme vertical force, and then returned the energy into the aircraft which in return forced the mig into the stratosphere!

Thank you everyone so much for all the information, and videos, and tracks! :beer:

This is going to be the most helpful post on here... I too have been experiencing this MiG-29 flinging back into the air on a hard or heavy landing. In my opinion this should not be happening as Soviet designers in particular designed this aircraft to be very durable and able to be operated from damaged airfields and roadways. I have looked long and hard to find a MiG-29 landing where clearly the pilot was not using the standard landing technique that everybody has read in the NATO GAF manual i'm sure.

Anyways, without further adue meet MiG-29 pilot Anatoliy Kvochur... Here you see him land by deploying the drag chute in mid air, hitting all 3 wheels relatively at the same time. and i'm sure because of the wet runway condition executing maximum braking with no aerobrake technique utilization.

Don't know what the disposition of the aircraft was after this landing but it appears the MiG designers made a rugged plane that could handle such a landing. Clearly as evidenced by this the landing behavior is not correct in DCS and should be made to reflect the reality more closely in parameters or not there is a margin of engineering safety and redundancy always.

This is going to be the most helpful post on here... Clearly as evidenced by this the landing behavior is not correct in DCS and should be made to reflect the reality more closely in parameters or not there is a margin of engineering safety and redundancy always.

Ummm...

Forgive the bobbing prior to landing. I was trying to dump a bit of excess airspeed.

I believe Valery Menitsky was the first one who started landing MiGs (starting from MiG-23) deploying the drag chute in mid air. The idea was to vacate the runway after the threshold via the first available taxiway to save time on a very busy test airfield on taxing for himself and other pilots from other test teams.

Ummm...

 

 

Forgive the bobbing prior to landing. I was trying to dump a bit of excess airspeed.

if you watch Anatoliy land you can see there is limited nose flaring with his landing in comparison to yours

This is not a bug. The Mig-29 is the most hard to land of all the players aircraft and is wrong that landing. The landing behavior is absolutely wrong. Giving you so small errors allowed. Seem that is a programmed trigger that ruin the landing when you slightly over pass some parameters. That was made so from the first day MiG-29 received new flight physics and have been without a fix from developers. Does not matter how long remain like so. They don’t care

Edit: the branded [REPORTED] in the name of thread is there for more than 2 years, probably 3. That show you very clear they don’t care and wanted the landing so for some reason. I have a track that proof this behaves still is not fixed.

if you make a search you will find old threads talking about this issue from the very beginning the Flight physics was upgraded. How come happen that we bounce 20 meters. what kind of physics we got them? and yes is the harder to land for sure. I have all migs and Su and never experience so awful landing, only that happen with Mig-29.

I have shown video evidence of a real MiG-29 landing what is considered in an unorthodox improper manner, hard on relatively on all 3 wheels with drag chute deployed while still in the air with little to no flare for landing as well as absolutely zero aerobraking.

Why is there even still a ridicules debate when users are experiencing the nose strut flinging them back into the air like some cartoon character using trampoline?